Court Backs Turkish Headscarf Ban

So they are actually bribing families to force their women to wear the veil... I see.

Infact you see nothing, what he means scholarship. I dont understand how did you understand this something related  with family.

And Religious people or instutitions are not only scholarship givers.  There are other instutitions too(pro-kemalist, mason, or christians)  I dont see, how  can you see this as a bribe?

Not actually, have you seen the pictures posted by Mila of Bosnian Muslim women? They do not wear headscarf but they do wear miniskirt at times. In my neighborhood, old Muslim ladies do but young ones mostly don't. It's a vanishing fashion

Realy? I didnt know, bosnia is only muslim country. you can see headscarf  used all of world by muslims. I didnt say, every muslim use it.Infact It is not a vanishing fashion in Turkey. Even state force people, Number of Muslims who use headscarf in Turkey is increasing. By the way, It is not a fashion.

Typical traditional Islamic prejudism in action?  Looks like Turkey isn't the only country facing the injustices of religious bigots

This is not our topic, lets dont change topic. we are not playing ping-pong.

While some are fighting the ban against headscarves, others are struggling against order to put them on. In the Netherlands, Muslim teacher Samira Haddad filed a suit against Amsterdam's Islam Preparatory School when her application for work there was rejected on the basis of her not wearing a headscarf."

so? why did you paste this? I dont think this is related with our topics, and I dont think anyone support this action.This is exactly same thing with banning headscarf.

Turkey may sound extreme, but I would rather have it her way then let fundamentalists take it over and make all women were a headscarf. Look at the Iranian women. That is one kind of revolution that is not welcome in Turkey

LOL, seco you just exactly showed us what I said before, you are scaring us with iran, but as I said before, in core, we are same with iran but lets say our face is more beatiful.

Banning headscarf or forcing headscarf is two side of same coin, I wont call one better. Both of them suspend basic right of humans.

Mortaza you said I was changing the facts, so can you also tell me and to the public why the headscarf is banned after 1998 while it was free before that time?(may be 1997 either not quite sure about that)

Anyone in Turkey can see all the facts, I don't wanna make any claims upon you or etiquette you based on our past talks,but so at least let's not fool each other and people from rest of the world here.

I had already stated my opinion about it, and stated I am either a Muslim, but Turkey's situation here, unfortunately doesn't allow such a thing as it is being abused.

opps sorry for the delay

i totally forgot about replaying to you.

so lests go.

what proofs you want? how women dressed before Islam?

its even mentioned in the Quran about "Tabaruj" and "Zeenah" which was excessive before islam and women were ordered not to show their beauti to strangers. from these verses its clear that they did practice this type of clothes before islam and Islam forbid them from doing so.

also you are arguing not to follow what the scholars through history understood from the quran verses and you yourself translating the quran as per your own understanding from a translated verse!

also about the part of the verse which says  "Yudnynah Alyhunah Min Jalabeebhinah"

the word Yudnynah does not mean lengthen, it means lower, the word Alyhunah means Over them ( them as the women) the Ibn Katheer , Tabari, Qurtubi and Jalalyeen Tafseers agreed on that meant to cover the full body from head to feet and show only eyes.

As i said before when any verse came the scholars had to check what the muslims did in order to obay such verse. and those people of the time of the Prophet ( his companions) did understand these verses and acted accordingly.

if you think that you would understand these verses better than them from reading the translated verses you have soley without even checking history as a reference then i assure you that your arguments wont find much ears to listen to.

and about the Hadiths you used to make fun of, i advice you to re-check the occation when they came and what it was exactly meant from them, and most importantly to check their sources and if they are reliable or weak ones.

iam not arguing that the best garment is righteousness modesty, iam talking about the clothes Islam ordered women to wear.

dont see who you decided that legs and chest are the "required" parts to cover.

obviously you are making decisions on the translated verses you have and taking the orders as per your own understanding, well people has different understanding to the same verse, and all has their reasons as you do, But which one is the correct one??

thats why History of the Actions been taken by the Prophet and his companions are the Strongest proofs of what is the verse Actully saying.

lol you are saying "that is why it reminds people to follow God and the Prophet and he was a role model"  a question, how would you follow the prophet without using the Hadiths???

also the Hadiths were nt created generations after the prophet, they were recorded along with the Quran, the Hadiths ( the ones agreed by all branches of Islam) are kept save from changes as the Quran. add to that the tail of sources reaching to the prophet were recorded too. you should look more into how Hadiths were collected and saved.

also as it said in more than one place  " Follow the Prophet" and "Obay the Prophet"

so how would you follow and Obay him? from what sources?  OR these verses has no meaning now since the Hadiths we have are "human made" and we are not supposed to consider when taking actions ?

no not true , what you are saying here or what i understood from what you are saying here is that Interpert the Quran as you wish and say this what god said.

again the scholars aren't inventors of new things , most of them just collected the Historical responses from the Prophet and His companions to the verses of the Quran.

if the Prophet didnt act as God wanted Who would????????????

would it be the man who translated the verses of the quran (word by word) into english as the one who we should follow?

in this case you are not following what god says you are following what the english translator is saying and taking his translation directly as you understood.

yea sure show me where the prayers are mentioned in detail in the Quran.

about the Hadiths talking about the prayers in details i found them and they are more organised in the Arabic version of the site than the english one

in Arabic

http://hadith.al-islam.com/subject/Hier.asp?from=5070&To =6071&ID=5069

in English

http://hadith.al-islam.com/Bayan/DisplayHits.asp?Lang=eng&am p;ID=2314&From=2315&To=2885

its from Saudi Arabia's Islamic Affairs ministry.

also you didnt tell me how do the women of the "Hijab ban supporters" pray?

if they are praying using the Hijab the question would be why?

i think there are alot of Scholars and Religous people will be happy to answer your questions, you dont even need to meet them, just mail them.

and as i said before what you understand is not what all the people understand from the Quran its wise to see what others think and why they think so.

by others i mean people who spended longer time of their lives studing the Quran and its commands and rules and system.

you know the Quran came in more than 20 years to the prophet, it didnt come once.

why do you think is that?

were they were dumb in the past that they wont get what the verses say?

in your quick analysis and decisions about the Quran and its commands from what translation you have and talking the verses by the translated brief words, you know that there is a reason why Arabic was chosen to be the language of the Quran.

Arabs at those times were very hard to convence, and they were mastering the way of talking in all occasions , the Quran came in Arabic as a Challege to them and they faild to even try to compete.many of them converted to Islam from hearing one chapter or even one verse.

my point is that each verse has much deeper meaning in what it appears to be.