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How do Muslims view the Baha段 Faith

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  Quote 輟k ge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: How do Muslims view the Baha段 Faith
    Posted: 12-Nov-2005 at 01:22
Well Maju, God is loving and all love, but at the same time, God gets angry. I love my father, but it doesn't mean I don't fear his anger and sometimes his punishment for my bad deeds. This is a very typical human nature and it is automatically proven since you are child too. Your parents excercise giving you love but warning you of their anger and punishment too.
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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Nov-2005 at 02:10
I've never thought that a divinity would experience emotions as we do but, anyhow, these are his emotions: it is he who should learn to manage them. All I can do is to listen friendly and maybe consolate him but I can't take up the guilt for his emotionality. My father never achieved anything by means of being agressive or punitive, but he achieved a lot by means of being possitive and cooperative.

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  Quote Arpad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Nov-2005 at 02:47
I think the meaning of our Holy book is the same in Farsi.
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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Nov-2005 at 06:25

yea its Arabic so  is the name of Bahai founder.

so from my short reading this religion had an islamic background. and both "bab" and "bahaullah" are Arabic names.

 

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  Quote Arpad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Nov-2005 at 07:33

Yes they are, and yes we have Islamic background because both our founders the Bab and Baha'u'llah were from Islamic background.

However let there be no confusion we are Bahai's following Baha'u'llah the Bab was the forerunner of our faith, he came and teold the people of the coming of a great one (Baha'u'llah) and basically got them ready for the coming of the new messanger.

We believe that after all messangers a period of light shines down on the world, After Muhammad, sciences, maths al theses exelled, the world became a new place, Europe gradually went out of the dark ages, Many poets made some of the greatest literature in the world, Advances in Human anatomy, health etc were made . thus a period of light.

We believe the period of light after our messanger is clear, 150 years ago in 1844 noone dreamed of flying through continents, in the oldern ways the way to spread message would be to travel etc., however now we have so much progressed, we have progressed so much at such a high exponential way since the last 150 years, and i believe this is because the dawn of a new cycle, with the Abrahamic cycle complete, the new cycle is dawned and what we are seeing today is only the start of great great new advances to be made in technology.

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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Nov-2005 at 09:32

 

yea Bab told people that "Al Mahdi" is comming and "Al Mahdi" was described by the Prophet Mohammed, and not considered as a prophet.

 

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  Quote PrznKonectoid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2005 at 00:25

Originally posted by Maju

I know it's of topic but hatred is made up of fear (plus rage, plus psychological/sociological constructs). Yet hate may well not be directed against the feared one(s) precisely because of the fear. Katulakatula is on something.

While fear is a normal emotion, though an unpleasant one, living in fear destroys the soul and self-steem.

Its quite simple. Religion uses hate to utilizes hate to galvinize the population to its cause.



Edited by PrznKonectoid
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  Quote PrznKonectoid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2005 at 00:28
Originally posted by 輟k ge

Originally posted by PrznKonectoid

Well what did you expect, most Muslims treat Bahai with contempt and intolerance.

Arpad asked for your opinion on Bahaism and not what do you think others think of Bahaii faith. So mind your own business please as no one so far in this thread criticized Bahaism.

Regarding me, I think Bahaism is a cult like many other cults in Christianity and other religions. I just find it odd that they believe in Islam, where a vital and critical element in Islam is to believe that prophet Muhammed is the last messenger, thus closing the door for any doubts and that explains too why in Islam we don't have saints and godly-spirited individuals. I am reading the link provided by Cahaya regarding Bahaism and I'm sure I can find some answers of my earlier questions.

 

Read the topic name please.

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  Quote 輟k ge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2005 at 01:54

Originally posted by PrznKonectoid

Read the topic name please.

Read the instructions and questions asked by the person who created the topic

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  Quote PrznKonectoid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2005 at 02:06
Originally posted by 輟k ge

Read the instructions and questions asked by the person who created the topic

Ok, for sure. Your always 100% correct 輟k ge, always.

In any circumstance Bahai faith is one which is little understood by most. My views are that Bahai deserves a place in this world with respect. I dont know why it is not considered "people of the book" as I see it they follow the general monothiestic principles of Abrahamic religions.

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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2005 at 04:48

the Quran specified who are the people of the Book and they are the Jews and the Christance.

nothing in the Quran about Bahai faith nor their books or prophet.

as i said earlier that the founder of Bahai thought of himself as the "Mahdi" which is described by the prophet mohammed.

Muslims are ordered to follow the Mahdi, obviously majority of Muslim dont think that Bahaullah is the Mahdi. i guess his description didnt fit the description the prophet mentioned.

and its clear that Bahai came from Islamic Background which also recognise Judaisim and Christianity.

also its been many occasions through history were some people claimed to Al Mahdi, and got themselvs killed.

starting with Abu Musaylamah who after the prophet's death claimed to be a Prophet himself and was killed by the Army sent by the first Caliph Abu Baker.

also a woman called "Sajah" claimed to be a prophet too and then took it back and became a normal muslim.

 

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  Quote 輟k ge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2005 at 13:03

Originally posted by Maju

I've never thought that a divinity would experience emotions as we do but, anyhow, these are his emotions: it is he who should learn to manage them. All I can do is to listen friendly and maybe consolate him but I can't take up the guilt for his emotionality. My father never achieved anything by means of being agressive or punitive, but he achieved a lot by means of being possitive and cooperative.

And who said emotions are the creation of human being and only the copyright of humen? God feels anger and happiness but in his way. We could have been created us just like Bacteria. In religion theology, our creation came as part of God and he gave us whatever privilage we were given from brain, emotion express...etc

If we have a God who is solid, does not feel love to us, happiness for our good, and anger for our atrocities, I guess then you have a piece of stone there and not God.

"it is he who should learn to manage them", If God has no control over his expressions, he could have just commanded one single command and we all have vanished. Forever. and save him the trouble.

God feels angry as your dad feel angry on you when you do stupid thing. Don't tell me your dad had no emotions and didn't concern about you at all. 

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  Quote Maziar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2005 at 15:21

Originally posted by 輟k ge

Well Maju, God is loving and all love, but at the same time, God gets angry. I love my father, but it doesn't mean I don't fear his anger and sometimes his punishment for my bad deeds. This is a very typical human nature and it is automatically proven since you are child too. Your parents excercise giving you love but warning you of their anger and punishment too.

Anger and punishment aren't an effective method for decent education. Fearing parents will causes many mental problemes in futur.

It's the same thing in relation with God. Why do you need to "fear" a god for being decent?

Originally posted by Maju

I've never thought that a divinity would experience emotions as we do but, anyhow, these are his emotions: it is he who should learn to manage them. All I can do is to listen friendly and maybe consolate him but I can't take up the guilt for his emotionality. My father never achieved anything by means of being agressive or punitive, but he achieved a lot by means of being possitive and cooperative.

 

 

 

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  Quote Degredado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2005 at 15:56

Originally posted by Arpad

After Muhammad, sciences, maths al theses exelled, the world became a new place, Europe gradually went out of the dark ages,

I many times wonder if Mohammed had anything to do with it, considering that Persia, Egypt, Syria, etc., were already civilized regions before he was even born. 



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  Quote PrznKonectoid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2005 at 16:06
Originally posted by Degredado

Originally posted by Arpad

After Muhammad, sciences, maths al theses exelled, the world became a new place, Europe gradually went out of the dark ages,

I many times wonder if Mohammed had anything to do with it, considering that Persia, Egypt, Syria, etc., were already civilized regions before he was even born. 

Indeed, much of this mathematics were already present in Egypt, Persian, Babylon, and India.

The Islamic empire just conglomerated it in their learning centers in Baghdad. At first the attitude was fairly open to philosophy, math, and the fine arts.

But gradually acceptance disappeared and rulers became more and more strict. It was a shame too, just as Europe was increasing their tolerance of the arts and went full force into their renaissance.

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  Quote 輟k ge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2005 at 16:39
Originally posted by Maziar

 Anger and punishment aren't an effective method for decent education. Fearing parents will causes many mental problemes in futur.

It's the same thing in relation with God. Why do you need to "fear" a god for being decent?

Sure. Find me a parent who never ever got angry and never ever punished their kids.

I personally never seen that and punishment does not have to be physical. It is something common sense that we have punishing results for your wrong work. Punishment is a part of the educational system actually, which is from receiving F for your low performance in class, being asked to stay in your room for the night by your parent, cut in your monthly salary by your employee, fines of speeding, all the way to prison and execution. That is realism, however, if you believe in managing human beings with no punishment, i respect your ultra-idealistic belief.



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  Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2005 at 17:01
Originally posted by Arpad

Hi im wondering what the fellow Muslims knew and viewed about the Baha'i faith. I know hardcore Islamic people in Iran hate us and denounce us but am wondering how it is around the other Islamic cultures and countries.

We don't drink alcohol, no sex before marriage, pray to God, believe in 1 God, believe in all past religions of God (ie., Judaism, Christianity, Islam )we have obligatory prayers etc.

We are not an Islamic sect for those who don't know about the Baha'i Faith, the religion is an independant one and started 150 years ago in Persia, we have >6 million followers world-wide. We believe also in the Oness of God, Equality of Men and Women, Oness of humanity, abolition of racsim, predjudice, Oness of Religion, we have no Clerics like (priest, Imam etc) we believe in Independant investigation of the truth, to name a few.

Any way tell me how your views are, don't feel shy to post your OWN opinions. Thanks

Arpad.

In the West, it appears to many that "hardcore Islamic people" hate everyone and everything not "Islamic."  Which is why Islam has such a bad press in the West.  It often appears not as a religion, but as an ideology that glorifies not dying for the faith, but killing for it.

Some interesting comments in this thread. 

 

 

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  Quote PrznKonectoid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2005 at 18:26
Originally posted by Maziar

 Anger and punishment aren't an effective method for decent education. Fearing parents will causes many mental problemes in futur.

It's the same thing in relation with God. Why do you need to "fear" a god for being decent?

Yes Maziar, respect is the ultimate method of control. If I am beaten I may fear you, but when you turn ur back I wont hesitate to stab you.

True that punishment is needed in a society but only to let people see what they have done wrong, not to for the enjoyment of punishing them.

But I dont think Maziar was talking about Killers and Rapists.

Also a God who loves killing and punishment, as in the old testament is detrimental to a society. 

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  Quote Arpad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2005 at 20:45
In the 1830's in Persia, Siyyid K痙im of Rasht was the leader of the Shaykhis, a sect of Shiite Islam. The Shayhkis were expecting the eminent appearance of the Q'im of the House of Muhammad, also called the Mahdi.

At Siyyid K痙im's death in 1843, he had counselled his followers to leave their homes to seek the Lord of the Age whose advent would soon break on the world. One of these followers called Mull Husayn travelled to Shiraz.

On his arrival on May 23, 1844, Mull Husayn was approached by a young man wearing a green turban (an indication that the wearer was a descendent of the Prophet Muhammad). The stranger, the B畸, invited Mull Husayn to his home. After being asked by the B畸 of what he was doing in Shiraz, Mulla Husayn replied that he was searching for the Promised One. The B畸 then asked how would the Promised One be recognized, to which Mulla Husayn replied "He is of a pure lineage, is of illustrious descent, is endowed with innate knowledge and is free from bodily deficiency". To the shock of Mulla Husayn, the B畸 declared "Behold, all these signs are manifest in me.".

Mull Husayn had one more sign by which to identify the Promised One. He had been told by Siyyid K痙im that the Promised One would write a commentary on the Surah of Joseph (a chapter in the Qur'an) without being asked. The B畸 fulfilled this requirement as well, writing the commentary after making his declaration. The B畸 then declared 前 Thou who art the first to believe in Me! and took the title the B畸.

Mull Husayn became the B畸's first disciple. Within a very short time, seventeen other disciples of Siyyid K痙im had independently recognized the B畸 as a Manifestation of God, among them was one woman, a poetess, who later received the name of T疉irih (the Pure). These eighteen disciples were later to be known as the Letters of the Living

To these first eighteen disciples the B畸 gave the task of spreading the new Faith throughout the land.

 

Thats in short the proofs that we follow.

 

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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2005 at 21:17

 

from that is even clearer that it is somehow a branch of Shia Islam. at least at their beginings.

 

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