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the term "istan", from who does it originate?

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  Quote TheodoreFelix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: the term "istan", from who does it originate?
    Posted: 31-Oct-2005 at 20:05
I heard it was of Turkic origin but from what I hear, this also mostly denotes lands that are muslim in populous. It means "land of" I believe, right? So can someone tell me this words origin?

Edited by Iskender Bey ALBO
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  Quote ArmenianSurvival Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Oct-2005 at 20:25
To my understanding the suffix "-istan" or "stan", is Persian/Iranian in origin. Countries influenced by Iranian cultures (such as Armenia) use the suffix, but it is Iranian in the original form, from what i have read in Armenian history books.
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  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Nov-2005 at 08:50
AFAIK, its used in Sanskrit too.
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  Quote oslonor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Nov-2005 at 03:46
It means Province in Persian. It also means city in Swedish. It is a geographical division. The word is "Stan"
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  Quote Hamoudeh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Dec-2005 at 02:26

If in regard to Istanbul, there are several theories but the one mostly maintained is that it's a Turkish contraction of the Greek "est an polis" (or similar) meaning "into the city" which is what the Byzantines were supposedly saying when the Ottomans were close to enter Constantinople.  

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  Quote Jhangora Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Dec-2005 at 07:23

Originally posted by Cywr

AFAIK, its used in Sanskrit too.

Sanskrit 'Sthan'=Place.

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  Quote Infidel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 20:42

Originally posted by Hamoudeh

there are several theories but the one mostly maintained is that it's a Turkish contraction of the Greek "est an polis" (or similar) meaning "into the city"

The most common theory is that Istanbul developed from the greek eis ten poli (pron: is tin boli)meaning to or in the city. It's likely to have been so, at least linguistically speaking. Culturally, it also makes sense, since Constantinople was referred to simply as i Poli, the City, among greeks, even nowadays. 

I read somewhere that a contraction of Konstantinopouli to Konstanpouli and then simply to Stanpouli (pro: stanbuli) could be also another reasonable explanation.



Edited by Infidel
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  Quote Hamoudeh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 21:02

"eis ten poli" is also what my Turkic linguistics professor told me, and he maintained it was the most common theory. I asked about the one you mention about Constantinople, he didn't find it probable; I've read it somewhere as well, sounded reasonable to me to.

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  Quote Infidel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 22:18
Perhaps we'll never know. Anyway, eis ten poli is reasonable enough to be accepted, given the fact that Constantinople was commonly referred to i poli among the greeks. So the turks would hear stinboli all the time and simply call it istinbol and later istanbul to the city.
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  Quote Infidel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 22:19

On ottoman official documents, it remained Konstantiniye until the end of the Empire, though.

I think it officially changed to Istanbul during the Republic.

 



Edited by Infidel
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Dec-2005 at 05:16

You are wrong, in almost all Ottoman official documents "Istanbul" has been called "Istana/Astana" (it means capital/city in Persian language, the new capital of Kazakhstan is also called Astana).

just read these ones: http://www.gzastorm.i12.com/islam/index.html

it was the nationalist policy of the unionists within the state that evoked the nationalist idea in the Ottoman elements. Hence, the Albanians in Astana founded their own Committee, soon to be followed by the Circassians and the Kurds.

The Arabs for their part established the Committee of "Arab-Ottoman Brotherhood" in Astana and they opened the Committees club under the same name.

It is in the interest of the Astana government to coerce the Syrians to leave their homelands. Arab lands, especially Iraq and Yemen, must be turned into Turkish colonies, in order to spread the Turkish language which must be the language of the Deen.

And you have to trust the fact that the Turkish Committee, which you have witnessed in Astana and in the other parts inhabited by Turkish elements, does not clash in any way with the Arab aspirations.

I have said it many times and I know you just love to play with words and ignore all Persian sources, anyway I say again that from early times Persians called "Constantinople" as "Istan Bul" which means "Land Bridge", as they said "AfghanIstan" (Land of Afghans) and "Kabul" (Mountain Bridge).

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  Quote Alborz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Dec-2005 at 07:15

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

ignore all Persian sources, anyway I say again that from early times Persians called "Constantinople" as "Istan Bul" which means "Land Bridge", as they said "AfghanIstan" (Land of Afghans) and "Kabul" (Mountain Bridge).

Actually it was "Istan Pul", and "KaPul".

istan bul and kabul are the arabized ones, because of lack of P in their language.

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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Dec-2005 at 07:57

hmmm when did the Arabs arabized pul?

its the persian who lost their P .

anyway i think the Istana as Cyrus mentioned is the correct theory for Istanbul's name.

 

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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Dec-2005 at 10:58
Alborz is right, the original Persian words were Istanapul and Kuhpul.
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  Quote DayI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Dec-2005 at 14:21
Originally posted by Infidel

On ottoman official documents, it remained Konstantiniye until the end of the Empire, though.

I think it officially changed to Istanbul during the Republic

I think the local people of Istanbul called it "konstantiniyye" another version of Constantinople.
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  Quote erci Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Dec-2005 at 16:31
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

You are wrong, in almost all Ottoman official documents "Istanbul" has been called "Istana/Astana" (it means capital/city in Persian language, the new capital of Kazakhstan is also called Astana).



Not that I want to say it's a false information but could you please post any document or photo saying Istana or Astana when mentioning Istanbul related to Ottoman?

You said almost all offical documents, I want only one cos it's the first time I heard these words.I'm just curious
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  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Dec-2005 at 16:38

Asitane, I heard istanbul was called as such but didnt know meaning of it.

Infact I dont know why Turks should call consantinapole as "into the city".

They were no alien to consantinapolis name or greek langauge.  I cant see any reason to call a known city as "into the city"

Bin adet baslm olan kitab kartrmaya koyuldum. koyuldum. lk sayfada kitabn adnn neden "Asitane" olduu aklanyordu. Eski bir asker olan yazarn geride brakt baz eyalarn zerinde "Ragp Efendi, Asitane yazlym. Asitane, Osmanl payitaht stanbul'un tarihteki adlarndan biri... Kitab kartrmaya devam ettim. En yenisi otuz, en eskisi elli yl nce yazlm yazlara ve onlarn tasniflerine baktm. Neler yoktu ki? stanbul'un semtleri, nakil vastalar, camiler, saraylar, emeler, kabristanlar...

http://www.sabah.com.tr/2004/03/21/cp/yaz1034-20-104-2004032 1-102.html

It say Asitane was one name of Istanbul.



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  Quote Hamoudeh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Dec-2005 at 22:08

The theory is that as they were ready to conquer it, the Byzantines started screaming "into the city" in Greek for security. Ottomans heard that, and named the city after what they heard. Eist an poli -> Istanbul.

 

 

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  Quote ok ge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2005 at 03:33

After the Ottoman conquest, the name Constantinople was accompanied with "Konstantiniye". I also heard different names being used as 'Dersaadet" and "Deraliye''.

As Hamoudeh said, the Istanbul came from a greek sentance "to the city" said as eis ten polin in greek and not Eist an poli.

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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Dec-2005 at 04:56

I don't know why people think that Turks were so ignorant, when Europeans were in the dark ages, Turks were ruling the most civilized part of the world, I think when the Byzantines started screaming "into the city" in Greek for security, Turks started singing this Greek Peom of Molana Rumi for teaching them the Greek literature!

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