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Mortaza
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Joined: 21-Jul-2005
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Topic: OK Turkey what is this all about? Posted: 26-Oct-2005 at 08:23 |
cywr popo means ass, but well It is a kind way to say ass.
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dirtnap
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Posted: 26-Oct-2005 at 09:08 |
Originally posted by Mortaza
well answer is yes, It is unbelievable ridiculous. But It happened.
So you dont need to call us VERY proud Turks. Just Turk would be fine. No need to sarcasm. |
Instead of telling me how I should feel, try not to take my comments so personally because its not as though I am suggesting YOU(Mortaza) created this law and are therefore foolish or because it happened in Turkey that ALL Turks must be foolish...
If I had not just read about Turkeys mental health care abuses I would barely have noticed this article but I have been following Turkeys efforts to join the EU and I am disheartened by the latest and wonder what's next...
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Posted: 26-Oct-2005 at 09:50 |
Alright, I will make a comment about this.
Some people were fined because of the non-Turkish letters in their IDs or some formal documents. Is this the story?
If not, then don't read what is written below.
Turkey's official language is Turkish and it does not include the letters; Q, W, X.
This is a law. If you violate it, you will be fined. It's that simple.
In Turkey, you may use any language, any letter in anything; except the ones concerning the state.
I was born in Australia. My name was written as "Barish", instead of "Barış". How would you explain that?
Edited by Barış
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Alkiviades
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Posted: 26-Oct-2005 at 09:57 |
Currently all democratic states are allowing their citizen or non-citizen residents to use whatever language and whatever alphabet they fancy in their personal affairs. You can put up a sign in Turkish or in Arabic or in Aramaic if you fancy and nobody will tell you anything. Certainly in the state affairs, there is usually one official language used, but this is not the case here, is it? All democratic countries. So, Turkey not only lacks free press (as discussed in another topic) but also has that absurd laws in place that forbid people to speak and write in their language!
BTW, some countries with mixed/ multinational population have multiple "official" languages. Seeing as the Kurds are a rather huge minority (about 20 millions, correct?) I see it as rather absurd that this is not the case in Turkey.
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kotumeyil
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Posted: 26-Oct-2005 at 10:04 |
The decision is ridiculous but the state television itself uses those letters in the Kurdish programs. The reality is that despite the recent freedoms that are provided, the judiciary organ consists of some conservatist people and the executive or legislative organs cannot interfere them since there's the seperation of powers. This is a wrong action done by one court and they should appeal a higher court. If the appealing court doesn't change the decision they can go to ECHR. This is the normal procedure. The government (I'm not saying that they support this or not) cannot interfere the job of the judiciary now.
On the other hand, the usage of the letters "q, w, x" are used in Turkey when quoting from a foreign word and as I said before the state television TRT itself uses these letters in the program in Kurdish. This is a contradiction in the state apparatus. Some people in the judiciary organs use any reason for confining Kurdish nationalists and their faults can only be solved through the appealing process for now.
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[IMG]http://www.maksimum.com/yemeicme/images/haber/raki.jpg">
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Posted: 26-Oct-2005 at 10:10 |
Turkey's only official language is Turkish.
This is an unchangeable law, protected by the Turkish constitution.
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DayI
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Posted: 26-Oct-2005 at 10:16 |
Originally posted by Cywr
But would you consider it offensive? Especialy if used in an English language context by people who don't speak a word of Turkish?
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"popo" is actually a soft word for ass in Turkish common words for ass are kych and g飆.
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Alkiviades
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Posted: 26-Oct-2005 at 10:21 |
Originally posted by DayI
[/QU |
"popo" is actually a soft word for ass in Turkish common words for ass are kych and g飆.[/QUOTE]
how do you pronounce the latter?
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Posted: 26-Oct-2005 at 11:47 |
Originally posted by Barış
Turkey's only official language is Turkish.
This is an unchangeable law, protected by the Turkish constitution. |
I assume you wrote this (in English) in Turkey. Aren't you in danger of being arrested now?
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Posted: 26-Oct-2005 at 12:02 |
Does it concern the state? Hmm, I don't think so.
Please read more carefully. All I said is this, documents that are related with the state should be written in Turkish and with Turkish letters.
Identities are such documents.
Edited by Barış
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Posted: 26-Oct-2005 at 12:31 |
Originally posted by Barış
Identities are such documents. |
"Identity" is not a document.
And I don't see in what way writing Q's and W's on a placard for
celebrating New Year puts the state in danger. This is nothing less
than cultural oppression and a violation of freedom of speech, in a
very childish form.
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Posted: 26-Oct-2005 at 14:05 |
Originally posted by Mixcoatl
"Identity" is not a document. |
Well, I think it is. It's the connection between a person and his state. It must be written in that state's official language
Originally posted by Mixcoatl
And I don't see in what way writing Q's and W's on a placard for celebrating New Year puts the state in danger. This is nothing less than cultural oppression and a violation of freedom of speech, in a very childish form. |
As I said before, Turkish is a must when we are talking about issues that directly relates to the state. Other than that, one should be allowed to use any language or alphabet. I'm not against that, of course.
Edited by Barış
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Posted: 26-Oct-2005 at 14:50 |
Since language is an integral part of identity you're basically saying that Kurds are not allowed to use their own language.
How brainwashed must one be to justify fining people who use the letter W?
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Posted: 26-Oct-2005 at 15:16 |
It seems no matter what I say, you will not change your opinion.
I will try nevertheless...
Kurds are allowed to use their language.
But when it comes to issues that concerns the state. Everybody, no matter his ethnicity, must use the official language.
Feels like dejavu, how many times must I repeat this?
Edited by Barış
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Mila
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Posted: 26-Oct-2005 at 15:21 |
Originally posted by Bar
It seems no matter what I say, you will not change your opinion.
I will try nevertheless...
Kurds are allowed to use their language.
But when it comes to issues that concerns the state. Everybody, no matter his ethnicity, must use the official language.
Feels like dejavu, how many times must I repeat this? |
Count your blessings, you have no idea how lucky you are.
In Bosnia, we have three official languages - Bosnian, Croatian, and Serbian. They're more or less dialects of each other, no different than British, Australian, and American (with A LOT more differences in terms of slang language).
It was not affordable for the government to provide every document in all three languages, so they tried to pass a law requiring official documents to be produced only in Bosnian. This, of course, caused a protest from Bosnian Croats and Bosnian Serbs.
So they decided to combine all three into one language. For example, a word like "news" would be written:
v(ij)esti.
But this pissed off Bosniaks and Bosnian Croats because our languages are the ones that require more letters to produce the same sounds as Serbian, so it looks like the document is written in Serbian with Croatian and Bosnian added in brackets as an afterthought.
So we continue to produce everything in three languages, where if you go through each document it'd have to be 500 pages of interviews with villagers quoted in slang to have even a single notable difference.
So, while 10 years after the war families still sleep in shacks on airport runways around the country waiting for their homes to be returned to them, we spend our money on this.
Edited by Mila
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[IMG]http://img272.imageshack.us/img272/9259/1xw2.jpg">
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Cywr
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Posted: 26-Oct-2005 at 15:22 |
How do you say 'kiss my' ?
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Arrrgh!!"
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Posted: 26-Oct-2005 at 15:27 |
Originally posted by Barış
It seems no matter what I say, you will not change your opinion.
I will try nevertheless...
Kurds are allowed to use their language.
But when it comes to issues that concerns the state. Everybody, no matter his ethnicity, must use the official language.
Feels like dejavu, how many times must I repeat this? |
Allright, could you give an example when they are allowed to speak Kurdish?
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Beylerbeyi
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Posted: 26-Oct-2005 at 15:53 |
I think Baris talks about an ID document, whereas Mix is talking about 'identity' as a concept.
Aside from that, Kurdish language is not illegal in Turkey. Kotumeyil and I already explained what's happening, here it is for the third time:
Some fascists (or reactionaries against the recent reforms) in the judiciary abusing a defunct law from 1928 (meant to replace the Arabic script with Latin) to oppress Kurds.
As to the number of Kurds in Turkey, nobody really knows, but more like 10-15 millions (15-20%). 20, I don't think so.
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Posted: 26-Oct-2005 at 16:52 |
Mixcoatl, you are probably not aware of it, but most of the Turkish citizens with Kurdish ethnicity knows Turkish better than Kurdish. The same thing goes for the Cherkez and the Laz people. This "language problem" is unnatural, unnecessary and probably made up by people who want to divide Turkey.
I agree, nobody can force the Kurds to speak Turkish, but neither they can force them to speak Kurdish.
You want an example? Well, think of anything which is not related to official issues.
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erci
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Posted: 26-Oct-2005 at 17:03 |
exactly what part you didn't understand with above posts my so concern
friends? I don't get it.it is not illegal to speak Kurdish in Turkey
but your IDs and all documents related to government has to be in
Turkish.Just like all the information on my Ohio State Drivers Lisence
has to be written in English.I can not demand to use these Turkish
letters
畤gmş
its my last name yet I have to use Ozgumus in all my documents related to state.
its still no big deal its only a letter you may think but its not the
case in Turkey.Our institution is sure different than those European
Countries.(I don't think I'd be able to use my name in original Turkish
letters in any Country tho)
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"When one hears such music, what can one say, but .... Salieri?"
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