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Historical annoyances.
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Christscrusader View Drop Down
Baron
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Posts: 481 		  Quote Christscrusader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Historical annoyances.
    Posted: 14-Nov-2004 at 00:44
A historical annoyance is the attempt of Turkey to join the EU. Obviously its not. FIrst, 85% of its people AND its capital is in Asia. Also, the main factor that shaped Europe WAs christianity, and Turkey does not share that. They say lets not make it a Christian Club, but THAt is what Europe was shaped apon.
Heaven helps those, who help themselves.
-Jc
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Temujin View Drop Down
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Posts: 5221 		  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Nov-2004 at 12:47
what about Bosnia? they're muslims too, AND they're part of Europe. besides, there are a lot of Christian countries outsde Europe are christian, so what? religion is really completely insignificant.
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Kubrat View Drop Down
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Posts: 339 		  Quote Kubrat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Nov-2004 at 12:55
Religion is really not insignificant.  It gives the leaders of countries an easy way to mobilize their populace for war...
Hell is empty and all the devils are here.
-William Shakespeare
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Posts: 481 		  Quote Christscrusader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Nov-2004 at 16:39
Im saying a BIG part of Europe was shaped by christianity. SUre, you'll get pockets of muslims in Europe, but thats very small. Almost ALL turkey is Islamic, so surley it belongs to the East rather than West.
Heaven helps those, who help themselves.
-Jc
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vagabond View Drop Down
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Posts: 524 		  Quote vagabond Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Nov-2004 at 22:53

A large portion of Europe was shaped by Islam as well.  I'm not sure that I see the connection between a country having an Islamic or Christian majority and it being a part of Europe - or especially European history.  As far as I know - the European Constitution says nothing about requiring a specific religion as a  requirement of membership - quite the opposite in fact. 

Historically, Istanbul, and much of western Turkey has for most of its (give or take a few) 4000 years of history been much more closely tied to Europe and European history than it has to anything in Asia.  I cannot imagine a study of Ancient Greece excluding the eastern Aegean coast nor a study of European history that did not include the Byzantine Empire.  Modern Turkey's interactions have also been primarily with the west.  Any study of Europe that did not include this would be greatly lacking.

This is - however - somewhat off topic as the question raised was about historical events and this is a contemporaty political issue.  If there is not a thread that already addresses Turkey and the EU (I believe there is/was one), perhaps you would like to open one in the Intellectual Discussions forum.
In the time of your life, live - so that in that wonderous time you shall not add to the misery and sorrow of the world, but shall smile to the infinite delight and mystery of it. (Saroyan)
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Christscrusader View Drop Down
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Posts: 481 		  Quote Christscrusader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Nov-2004 at 22:24
During the Ottoman Empire's reign it did not have close social or econimical ties to other European nations at the time. In fact, they rather of kicked them out of Europe all together. The eastern coast of Turkey 4000 years ago was also inhabited by different people, mainly Greeks. But in todays age, they have been displaced by non European peoples such as the Turks.
Heaven helps those, who help themselves.
-Jc
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Cywr View Drop Down
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Posts: 6003 		  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Nov-2004 at 14:06
Thats not quite true. They has informal alliances with some of the Protestant powers even back in the 1500s already. It was their way of playing the divide and rule game to keep their too Main Catholic opponents (Spain and Austria) in check.
IIRC, the Ottomans were one of the first to establish formal relations with the indipendant Dutch provinces in the 1500s
Arrrgh!!"
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Christscrusader View Drop Down
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Posts: 481 		  Quote Christscrusader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Nov-2004 at 15:26
Well i guess when your desperantly in need of allies, you can turn to this empire.
Heaven helps those, who help themselves.
-Jc
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Cywr View Drop Down
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Posts: 6003 		  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Nov-2004 at 15:31
An enemy of an Enemy is a Friend.
Though its more skillfull diplomatic play than anything else, and the Ottomans were good at thatm untill the Austrians starting using the same thing against them that is.
Arrrgh!!"
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TheDiplomat View Drop Down
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Posts: 1988 		  Quote TheDiplomat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2004 at 05:55

well put ,Cywr....i wanna thank you for correcting the pan-hellenist view of Ottoman history.

In 1532,the French King I.François was saying these to a Venetian Ambassador:

''Againts Habsburgs,we are in safe thanks to the Ottomans''

Ottoman Empire helped the Potestants quite a lot..Even the Sultan Suleiman was in close contact with them..



Edited by TheDiplomat
ARDA:The best Turkish diplomat ever!

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TheDiplomat View Drop Down
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Posts: 1988 		  Quote TheDiplomat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2004 at 06:00

Originally posted by Christscrusader

Well i guess when your desperantly in need of allies, you can turn to this empire.

Desparetely?Hahaha...funny boy..The Ottoman Empire was a global empire during the 16.Century...It was at its peak.

where did you learn history...i wonder...
ARDA:The best Turkish diplomat ever!

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Christscrusader View Drop Down
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Posts: 481 		  Quote Christscrusader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2004 at 12:38

 I was commenting on Cywr when he stated that many protestant rebels wanted alliances, and the only place they could get some is with the Ottoman Empire.

The Ottoman Empire was a global empire during the 16.Century...It was at its peak.

Why do I care? Many empires have had bigger peaks, and trust me, my history is quiet alright, and like I say, they had a good run, but went out ugly...
Heaven helps those, who help themselves.
-Jc
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