The True Cross after Hattin

Here is another question I have been trying to find answers to.  I know that a large portion of the True Cross was carried into the battle of Hattin by the Kingdom of Jerusalem during the Middle Ages.  Apparently, this was a large part of the original True Cross that was discovered by Helena, the mother of Constantine the Great.  This piece was encased in gold and kept in Jerusalem.  I have read that the muslims captured the relic after Hattin and that Richard the Lionheart later attempted to recover it (during the 3rd crusade) but no mention of what happened to it since.  Was it destroyed or is it still out there somewhere?

The accounts that I have read is Salah al-Din took/sent the fragment of the "true cross" to Damascas.  There it is reported the fragment was buried at the entrance of a mosque so that it could be walked over by all those who entered and left the mosque.  Whether it is still there or not is unknown.

At the time of the crusades there were believed to be 3 fragments of the "true cross".  The one in Jerusalem, another in Constantinople with the Byzantines and the other, if my memory serves me right, in Rome.   The last one may be wrong but I believe it was given to the pope sometime before the crusades. 

 

Cheers

Originally posted by R_AK47 Does anyone know what happened to the pieces from Constantinople and Rome?  I'm guessing that the one in Constantinople was stolen during the 4th crusade, but what about the piece in Rome?

 

The piece in Constantinople was taken by Bishop Nivelon of Soissons who also stole/took/acquired numerous other "relics" from the Church of the Blessed Virgin at Pharos during the sack of the Constantinople.  Where he took the "relics" my sources to not state. 

Going back to the other 2 pieces.  When Helen "found" the true cross it was cut into 2 pieces.  One piece went to Constantinople and the other Jerusalem.  That was in the 4th century.  Sometime later, I forget which CE, the piece in Jerusalem was taken by the Muslims.  Later around the 7th or 8th CE it was found again by a Bishop who divided into 2 pieces.  One piece went to Jerusalem and the other sent....my sources don't say.  I thought it was Rome, which would make sense, but I could be wrong.

This cross that was discovered under the Holy Sepulcher I doubt is the real thing. The wood was probably reused more than once on more than 1 prisoner then discarded once its use was lived up. The Cross we think of is a renissance image, but the real cross probably looked different.

She probably found 2 pieces of wood, but that doesnt mean it was the orgional crucifx.

 

We could endlessly debate over whether or not it was really the True Cross, but I would still like to know where the larger pieces of it are.  Seems strange that a relic of such importance has vanished.

And, perhaps my answer above was not the correct one? But, of course R_AK47 is also perhaps dead an buried by now?

This is my stupidity in making any attempt to reply to old posts! That is, the only one (besides the original poster and myself), who might well have any opinion is is "time!?"

Maybe the True Cross is located in a handbag?

Edited by DreamWeaver - 31-May-2010 at 06:23

Yes, much like the the Berlin Wall theres alot of it, enough to make up thousands of them. But whether or not it was a fragment of the true cross or no is irrelavent. It was an item, a symbol that had menaing and people belived it was.

The case in particular here is the True Cross fragment that existed in the Kingdom of Jerusalem and that was lost after Hattin and then used as a bargaining chip in politcs between Crusaders and Ayubbids fro the next few decades. What then happened to that cross?








Perhaps if we buy some of the above hand bags we may then discover. I see no other reason for it postin here

Ofcourse its all speculation because it disappears from history. I dount it would have been done away with initally atleast in the cnetury after Hattin since it was such an important negotiating piece, it  certainly is still being talked of and used in the late 1220's.