The Cruelest Leader

Which one of these is the most cruel leader the mankind has ever seen?

 To be fair to Genghis Khan he lived in a totally different time to us when mass-slaughter and horrific tortures were the norms right throughout europe and asia.

 You'd think though by the 20th century we'd of grown beyond such things as a species, however Hitler, Stalin and Mao are some of the most disgusting people to have ever existed. Their cynical destruction of life is far worse than the deaths through conquest which to be fair everybody in the 13th and 14th century was at when you look at it. I find it impossible to choose between Hitler and Stalin, both are equally detestable.

 

 Quick look at Wiki below shows what a monster Stalin was, even if he was responsible for the deaths of the lowest estimates, its still into the millions. Maybe not as downright twisted as what happened in the concentration camps, but I find it hard to seperate two totally evil men, when both were responsible for such horrific suffering. I think also the fact my country was allied with this monster in our fight to defeat a greater foe makes me dislike Stalin even more.

"About one million people were shot during the periods 1935�38, 1942 and 1945�50 and millions of people were transported to Gulag labor camps. In Georgia about 80,000 people were shot during 1921, 1923�24, 1935�38, 1942 and 1945-50, and more than 100,000 people were transported to Gulag camps.

On March 5, 1940, Stalin himself and other Soviet leaders signed the order to execute 25,700 Polish intelligentsia including 14,700 Polish POWs. It became known as Katyn massacre. See massacre of prisoners.

It is generally agreed by historians that if famines, prison and labor camp mortality, and state terrorism (deportations and political purges) are taken into account, Stalin and his colleagues were directly or indirectly responsible for the deaths of millions. How many millions died under Stalin is greatly disputed. Although no official figures have been released by the Soviet or Russian governments, most estimates put the figure between 10 and 50 million. Comparison of the 1926�37 census results suggests 5�10 million deaths in excess of what would be normal in the period, mostly through famine in 1931�34. The 1926 census shows the population of the Soviet Union at 147 million and in 1937 another census found a population of between 162 and 163 million. This was 14 million less than the projected population value and was suppressed as a "wrecker's census" with the census takers severely punished. A census was taken again in 1939, but its published figure of 170 million has been generally attributed directly to the decision of Stalin^[7] (see also Demographics of the Soviet Union). Note that the figure of 14 million does not have to imply 14 million additional deaths, since as many as 3 million may be births that never took place due to reduced fertility and choice.

Since "the margin of error" with regard to the number of Stalin's victims is virtually impossible to narrow down to a universally accepted figure, various historians have come up with extremely varying estimates of the number of victims, the highest being 60 million deaths."

 

Edited by Heraclius

For the same period of time (WWII), Heraclius' source has this figure (Rummel):

War-related Democides Hitler: 20,946,000 Stalin: 13,053,000 Japanese: 5,964,000 Chinese Nationalist: 5,907,000

Almost all of Hitler's crimes have the agravant of racism (5-6 million Jews, 3-4 million Soviet prisioners of war, about 500,000 Roma).

While the figure for Hitler's crime doesn't shrink much depending on the historian (15-25 million), the figures atributed to Stalin are very controversial, as "only" 7 million Soviet civilians are commonly accepted to have died during WWII (same source). The author of that site says:

My Very Rough Estimate (based largely, but not entirely, on Overy, who seems well-informed and sensible.) In tenths of millions. Axis POWs: 0.6M Soviet Soldiers during war: 0.4M Gulag: 0.6M Black Sea/Caucasus Minorities: 0.2M Baltic Minorities: 0.2M Repatriated Soviets after the war: 1.0M Germans who died fleeing the advancing Red Army: 1.0M TOTAL: 4.0M

So, yes, Stalin was indeed a cruel despot but it can be hardly compared to Hitler, whatever the anti-communist propagandist (most of them rather pro-fascist) try to demonstrate inflating the figures.

Stalin was the cruelest leader as well as Saddam husien.

Stalin definetly. Stalin sent millions of people without bullets to withstand bullets as i would see it. He let armies and divisions die for a single number of casualties formed to the enemy. He slaughtered millions of people just as a buffer to his nation.

Originally posted by gcle2003 Originally posted by Maju For the same period of time (WWII), Heraclius' source has this figure (Rummel): Stalin was in power quite a bit longer than Hitler. Most of the deaths attributed to Stalin were outside WWII. Most of Hitler's were during it.

Just imagine what Hitler could have done if he had stayed in power longer than just 12 years. I decided to restrict the comparison to a period of time that includes 1 million of Soviet ex-POWs killed gratuitously just to make the comparison more clear. If Hitler would have lasted he would have killed half Europe without problem.

WHO??? Is Countess Bathory? Never heard of her, to be true.

Well, another thing for Stalin is that Stalin sent many times numerous divisions against the SS on a clear field. Atleast he made the great positive action granting the Generalissimusses the ability to control their armies themselves and let them do what they want. This was the biggest miistake of Hitler's from my point as the Generals knew what their troops could do and what they could not do unlike the Fuhrer in Berlin or the Alps.

Don't have much knowledge about Mao other than fighting Chang Kai Shek and making China communist.

Attila carried out normal steppe policy of conquering and subjugation. Sure he committed crimes in the process, though they seem to be inflated emotionally through western eyes. He would fall under the catagory of compartriots like Aeleric and Valens, or Aetius.

Drakul would take top terror honors during his day but Queen 'Bloody' Mary or Countess Elizabeth Bathory were not far behind.  

"There are some connections between the Bathorys and the Draculas. The commander of the expedition that helped Dracula regain his throne in 1476 was Prince Steven Bathory. A Dracula fief, Castle Fagaras, became a Bathory possession during the time of Elizabeth. Both families had a dragon design on their family crests."  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/8668/Countess.html

Stalin led milliions to death due to his paranoid personailty. His Gulags and minority persecutions are numerous.

Hitler and his megalomania led to WWII and the famous Nazi concentration camps. The 20'th centuries most evil figure.

Genghis Khan did what Attila had done yet on a greater scale. He showed no mercy to those who willingly opposed him. But often created jobs and a safe haven for those who submitted. The numbers of his victims were the largest. Yet he produced an effective empire that fostered peace within its boundaries.

So my vote goes to... Hitler. The most destructive and senseless of tyrants.

 

I just read the Bathory article, couldn't believe it! So so sick......