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Viking Christianization

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  Quote HistoryGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Viking Christianization
    Posted: 07-Oct-2005 at 16:19
When did the Northmen become Christians?
هیچ مردی تا به حال به شما درباره خدا گفته.
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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Oct-2005 at 16:30

IN 725 Willbrord led a christian mission into Scandinavia.

In 826 Danish King Harald Klak was baptized.

 

Wooden Churches in Scandinavia existed starting from the 10'th century.

Early stone churches were built in Cnut's reign ( he died in 1035). In

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  Quote Kalevipoeg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Oct-2005 at 05:13
The Danish were Christianized (atkeast the ruler) in the mid of the 10th century, but how long it took for the people, who knows.
The Swedes have a date 1000.AD, but paganism continues to thrive throughout the 11th century with fighting between the two sides. Chrisitians win, as usual in the end - Bastards.

Were there no rulers with principals other than staying on the throne and getting the support of Western-European powers who fought amongst themselves as often as they did against pagans? Praise the Lithuanian pagans who lasted as long as they did.
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  Quote Kalevipoeg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Oct-2005 at 08:37
My bad, the Swedes don't have a certain date of becoming Christianized, the Norwegians have the Ca 1000. AD by Olav Tryggvason.
The Swedes were (the ruler atleast) Chriztianized between 1000. - 1018. by a king, a member of the Sktknung family. Pagans fought against it for a century or so.
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  Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Oct-2005 at 11:00
The Swedes weren't Christianized the same way as Norway (ie by the sword, held by a king). A number of kings converted, the first to permanently do so was Olof Sktkonung (Sktkonung being a nick-name, not a dynasty name). He did not try to convert his people or build churches since that would have gotten himself ousted or worse, something which happened to at least two later kings (Anund 'the Russian' and Inge Stenkilsson). The Heathen and Christian part of the population occasionally fought over the power, peacefully or with swords, with the Christians eventually winning; the last heathen king was Sven the Sacrificer who died in 1084. The people was slowly converted one by one, but it took at least another century until the realm could be called entirely Christian.
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  Quote Mangudai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Oct-2005 at 06:53
Usually historians consider Sweden as a thorough christian kingdom with the founding of the archdiocese of Uppsala in 1164, although  - as Styrbiorn wrote - paganism lived on for centuries, and pagan cults only ended with the protestant reformation in the 16th and 17th centuries (of course traces of paganism still lives on in several traditions, like in many countries) 
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  Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Oct-2005 at 13:52

We still have some of the culture from the Viking pagans. Like the Yule(is that how you spell it?) Log that is burned at Christmas. I think it's said that even the idea have Santa comes from them, I also heard pagans from Germany had a Santa figure, which in both cases was a small elf that brought gifts. Which I guess the cultures are linked.

Also Thursday is named after Thor, Friday Oden I believe, and Monday was named after another god which I forget his name. They also put these three gods in churches incase they really did exist, so it shows the Vikings were never really sure about Christianity being true.

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  Quote Mangudai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Oct-2005 at 14:05
Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy

We still have some of the culture from the Viking pagans. Like the Yule(is that how you spell it?) Log that is burned at Christmas. I think it's said that even the idea have Santa comes from them, I also heard pagans from Germany had a Santa figure, which in both cases was a small elf that brought gifts. Which I guess the cultures are linked.

Also Thursday is named after Thor, Friday Oden I believe, and Monday was named after another god which I forget his name. They also put these three gods in churches incase they really did exist, so it shows the Vikings were never really sure about Christianity being true.

It's spelled Jul in Swedish, danish and norwegian, Jl in ancient norse and modern icelandic. The elf figure must be identical to the scandinavian tomte (also known as nisse in Denmark and Norway), a little bearded gnome-like man who looked after the farmstead. It was believed that he would stay nice if you gave him a sacrifice of porridge at Christmas, and since then the tomte has been associated with Saint Nicolaus/Father Christmas - we call him Jultomte (Christmas-tomte) in swedish

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  Quote Kynsi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Oct-2005 at 14:55
This is a bit off topic but hey what the heck =D

Originally posted by Mangudai

[QUOTE=SearchAndDestroy]
a little bearded gnome-like man who looked after the farmstead. It was believed that he would stay nice if you gave him a sacrifice of porridge at Christmas


Same here in Finland we have "tonttu"s and if remember right one of my grand mothers used to sometimes throw some porridge behind the oven for when she cooked =) The most "famous" of the tonttus would be here the saunatonttu (sauna's gnome) I guess =P
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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Oct-2005 at 17:06
Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy

We still have some of the culture from the Viking pagans. Like the Yule(is that how you spell it?) Log that is burned at Christmas. I think it's said that even the idea have Santa comes from them, I also heard pagans from Germany had a Santa figure, which in both cases was a small elf that brought gifts. Which I guess the cultures are linked.



This is very-very curious: the same tradition existed among Basques: a log, sometimes with human features carved on it, named Olentzaro or Olentzero was burned in Christmas/Winter-Solstice. And more curious even: it also evolved into a Santa-like figure: a coal-maker, the only surviving Jentil (gentile, mythic pagan giant), that brings presents to kids in that date.

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  Quote Kalevipoeg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Oct-2005 at 17:49
Saunatonttu, a funny word if you are a Finno-Ugrian! We have a word tont and it is a version of ghost or a softer version of monster.
But today tont has become a word in slang too - mostly used for a person who doesn't get the point or just if you don't have anything to reply, you say, "What a tont!"
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Oct-2005 at 20:09

I read that Bebe created Christmas. Most Pagans and Heathen honor the Winter Solstice. On the old Julian Calendar this was Dec. 25. Now, Yuletide is on the 21st of Dec. Yuletide means the turning of the (sun)wheel. Dec. 25 was the Anglo-Saxon New Year. A lot of solar and/or dying Gods and Goddess were born on Dec. 25 (the Old Yule): Apollo, Mithra, etc.

 Yule is the Festival of Lights, so most if not all I-E Pagan and Heathen cultures had fire rituals, feasting,  Gods of death and rebirth, etc. connected with Yule or a time near Yule.

 The New Testament says Jesus was born during the time of a Roman head count. The Romans never did head counts in the winter because the dirt roads would be too muddy.

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  Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Oct-2005 at 20:58

Originally posted by maju

This is very-very curious: the same tradition existed among Basques: a log, sometimes with human features carved on it, named Olentzaro or Olentzero was burned in Christmas/Winter-Solstice. And more curious even: it also evolved into a Santa-like figure: a coal-maker, the only surviving Jentil (gentile, mythic pagan giant), that brings presents to kids in that date.

Do you think the celts may have carried in some traditions to spain that might have caught on? I really wish Christianity never came about, this world would have so much more flavor with all the different pagan religeons. And we probably would have many of the same traditions we have now.

"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." E.Abbey
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  Quote vagabond Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Oct-2005 at 09:47

Many of the Yule - and other pagan traditions are hanging on - with greater tenacity than some of the christian traditions.  The christmas tree is up in almost every home - but how many still set up a manger scene?  The Tomte thrills kids in Scandanavia just as the Krampus on St Nicholas Eve in Germany.

Two of my favorite Christmas songs:

"Throw the Yule log on Uncle John, Uncle John.
Throw the yule log on Uncle John." 
(full text available here:  http://pdqbach.com/composition/consortchristmas.htm 
along with "O Little town of Hackensack" and "Good King Kong looked out")

and

Hej tomtegubbar
Hej tomtegubbar sl i glasen
och lt oss lustiga vara.
Hej tomtegubbar sl i glasen
och lt oss lustiga vara.
En liten tid vi leva hr
med mycken mda och stort besvr.
Hej tomtegubbar sl i glasen
och lt oss lustiga vara.

(to be sung only if you stomp your feet hard and bang your beer mugs so hard that the aquavit glasses dance on every "Hej!"  Repeat song until the waitress threatens to cut you off if you make any further mess.)

St. Olaf would be appalled.

In the time of your life, live - so that in that wonderous time you shall not add to the misery and sorrow of the world, but shall smile to the infinite delight and mystery of it. (Saroyan)
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  Quote HistoryGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2005 at 20:39
HAHAH vagabond.....
هیچ مردی تا به حال به شما درباره خدا گفته.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Mar-2006 at 03:46
Vikings the pagans never become christians,at least in ESTONIA
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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Mar-2006 at 08:14
Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy

Originally posted by maju

This is very-very curious: the same tradition existed among Basques: a log, sometimes with human features carved on it, named Olentzaro or Olentzero was burned in Christmas/Winter-Solstice. And more curious even: it also evolved into a Santa-like figure: a coal-maker, the only surviving Jentil (gentile, mythic pagan giant), that brings presents to kids in that date.

Do you think the celts may have carried in some traditions to spain that might have caught on? I really wish Christianity never came about, this world would have so much more flavor with all the different pagan religeons. And we probably would have many of the same traditions we have now.



Don't think so: Basque language is surprisingly lacking of Celtic influences. It probably means that they were fierce enemies for a long time (at least that's how I read it).

Instead it can be a tradition that pre-dates Celts, and that was extended either in the late Paleolithic (then the European demographic core was in the Basque area) or in the Megalithic period that brought together peoples from North Africa to Scandinavia.

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  Quote ulrich von hutten Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Mar-2006 at 12:36
Originally posted by Seko

IN 725 Willbrord led a christian mission into Scandinavia.

In 826 Danish King Harald Klak was baptized.

 

Wooden Churches in Scandinavia existed starting from the 10'th century.

Early stone churches were built in Cnut's reign ( he died in 1035). In


but in 793 the revenge was hold. the attack of the monastery of lindisfarne in the northeast of england is usualy named as the beging of  the viking age.
tx82VYruq3lgM:www.nrm.se/images/18.4e32c8104f585693780004157 /2%2B-%2BVikingar%2Bsom%2Bstormar%2Bklostret%2Bi%2B%2BLindis farne.jpg">
hurray , storm the monastery

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