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mauk4678
Janissary
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Topic: Greatest Emperor Posted: 25-Aug-2004 at 20:15 |
WOOPS, I missed the (-473) thing. Sorry.
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mauk4678
Janissary
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Posted: 25-Aug-2004 at 20:14 |
I had to vote for other. Even though I know he was certainly not the greatest of all Emperors, Justinian is my favorite. Yes, I know the whole driving the empire into the ground thing, but his, and Theodora's architectural accomplishments were amazing. Also, his conquests allowed Procopius to give us alot of insight into the the world of his day. His account of the Lapps if fascinating. Arguably none of this can be directly attributed to Justinian himself, but he certainly set events into motion.
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Imperatore Dario I
Shogun
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Posted: 25-Aug-2004 at 12:01 |
Yes, Rome was already in deep decline way before Constantine came to power. Constantine revived teh empire, it's stupid to blame Christianity for causing the collapse.
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Let there be a race of Romans with the strength of Italian courage.- Virgil's Aeneid
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Yiannis
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Posted: 25-Aug-2004 at 07:27 |
Constantine was an opportunist. He saw that the strongest part of the empire's society was (or was soon to be) the Christians so he tried to secure his position by getting them on his side.
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The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics
Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
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Cornellia
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Posted: 21-Aug-2004 at 08:22 |
Blaming Constantine and his subsequent adoption of Christianity as the state religion doesn't take into consideration that the 50 years following the murder of Alexander Severus were one of the lowest points in the history of the Roman Empire. Severus was murdered only 70 years or so before Constantine.
The troubled times led to a succession of short reigned emperors who far more often than not met a violent death usually at the hands of their own troops. The empire was basically fighting for its life and was being threatened on almost every front - a resurgent Persia in the east and the Alemanni and Goths of the Rhine and the Danube. Its during this time we see the first emperor to fall at the hands of the enemy and the only emperor to be captured and die in captivity abroad.
This was a time when the empire temporarily split into two parts - The Gallic Empire and the Roman......and it wasn't the congenial split of East and West. There are emperors that we have little or no information on because there's little more than a name in the historical records. Of one emperor - Aemilius Aemilianus - Eutropius wrote "Aemlianus came from an extremely insignificant family, his reign was even more insignificant, and he was slain in the third month."
The seed for the fall were sown long before Christianity rose.
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Felix qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas
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Ptolemy
Knight
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Posted: 20-Aug-2004 at 22:01 |
Constantine didn't convert to Christianity until his deathbed because if he did he would have to abide by it's tenants, |
Just to be accurate, he wasn't baptized until in his deathbed, which was a common practice at the time. When he 'converted' could be seen as a gradual process over his lifetime (due to political necessity or, that it took a while for him to understand the religion)
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Imperatore Dario I
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Posted: 20-Aug-2004 at 15:35 |
Originally posted by Master of Puppets
Personally I don't see why Christianity should have such a decay-improving effect either. Weren't the decline of Roman military and the infiltration of barbarians more important causes for the fall of the Western Empire? |
Something should also be taken in consideration too on the decline of the Roman military. It didn't simply bang happen. Over the years of excessive taxation, decline in value of money (therefore reducing trade), and the tremendous effect of the plagues sweeping the Roman Empire, affording the military became impossible. So we also need to search deeper into what caused the decline of the military before we simply assume that it was the cause of the military's decline. Everything that caused the collapse also linked to another thing. For example, the military decline resulted in mass invasions by both the barbarians, and also by the Sassanian Persians.
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Let there be a race of Romans with the strength of Italian courage.- Virgil's Aeneid
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Master of Puppets
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Posted: 20-Aug-2004 at 05:01 |
Personally I don't see why Christianity should have such a decay-improving effect either. Weren't the decline of Roman military and the infiltration of barbarians more important causes for the fall of the Western Empire?
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Wherever I turn, there is Death.
The Epic of Gilgamesh; Tablet XI, line 245
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Roughneck
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Posted: 20-Aug-2004 at 00:22 |
Constantine didn't convert to Christianity until his deathbed because if he did he would have to abide by it's tenants, which would mean no more executions. Christianity was indeed a force merely meant to unify the empire behind him, and it brought the Christians, who were by now a powerful group, if a persecuted one, onto his side. Although to say that Christianity brought about the downfall of Rome, I can't agree with it. If so, why didn't the East go with it, which was in fact a Christian theocracy? The West was already on the downhill by 325 anyway, with only 150 years left. The Byzantine Empire lasted for nearly a thousand years as a Christian state, longer than any other state in history besides Egypt.
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[IMG]http://img160.exs.cx/img160/7417/14678932fstore0pc.jpg">
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Colchis
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Posted: 19-Aug-2004 at 23:25 |
Originally posted by Beylerbeyi
I voted for Constantine.
I think it was a very good idea to move the centre of the state to
Byzantium (and originally to divide it into two). This move
probably added centuries to the life of the Empire. Conversion to
Christianity was a very prudent move too. |
And this once we differ my dear Beylerbeyi -much to my surprise.
I think Constantine was partly responsible for the Hellenistic culture
to decline for many years to come. Even though he did not condemn the
traditional religion of the Roman Empire he did elevate Christianity to
an equal place. Still, he was very much a "pagan" until his last
moments and was frequently depicted with pagan symbols, not to mention
his deification after his death. Besides, the one "God" he refers to is
rather uncertain, it could very well have been his beliefs and devotion
in Sol Invictus interfering with the new faith. Christianity was a more
political choice than anything else and Constantine himself never got
rid of the pagan rites and practices. It was only after his death that
his three sons, and mainly Constantius who made paganism and everything
connected with it illegal and persecuted pagans and philosophers as
well as "heretic" (ie. those who didn't agree with him) Christians. In
any case, even though I am in Constantine's debt too for founding
Constantinopolis I think his opening the way for Rome's conversion and
thus its downfall he is far behind in my "favorites". Me and Mister
Edward Gibbon are of one mind on this one.
Anyway, I voted for Marcus Aurelius as I admire his work, his
philosophy and he wasn't a bad ruler after all, trying to keep the
empire in one piece and pretty much succeeding -if it weren't for his
rather incompetent son.
Edited by Colchis
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rider
Tsar
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Posted: 18-Aug-2004 at 04:56 |
My vote goes to Hadrian because he simply was an astonishing leader...and after i have read his biography i find him the greatest emperor of all times...or maybe Theodosius or Augustus was greater...
And i think Nerva should be in the list also?
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Mosquito
Caliph
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Posted: 17-Aug-2004 at 16:29 |
or just Marcus Ulpius Traianus
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ihsan
General
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Posted: 17-Aug-2004 at 11:07 |
Originally posted by Imperator Invictus
I think he's talking about Imperator Caesar Divi Nervae Filius Nerva Traianus Optimus Augustus Germanicus Dacicus Parthicus, Pontifex Maximus, Tribuniciae potestatis XXI, Imperator XIII, Consul VI, Pater Patriae
Emperor Caesar Nerva Trajan Augustus, son of the god Nerva, the best, (victor against the) Germans, Dacians, Parthians, the Greatest priest, (Proclaimed as one) of Tribunal powers 21 times, (proclaimed) Imperator 13 times, Consul 6 times, father of the fatherland.
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All I can say is COOL!
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Imperatore Dario I
Shogun
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Posted: 17-Aug-2004 at 07:46 |
They are all great emperors, and I'm not picking this one as my favorite, but I like Gordian III. He was a very young emperor, and even if he was assassinated early on, he scored a lot of successes against the Sassanian King Shapur I.
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Let there be a race of Romans with the strength of Italian courage.- Virgil's Aeneid
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Lannes
Baron
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Posted: 16-Aug-2004 at 21:15 |
Originally posted by Imperator Invictus
I think he's talking about Imperator Caesar Divi Nervae Filius Nerva Traianus Optimus Augustus Germanicus Dacicus Parthicus, Pontifex Maximus, Tribuniciae potestatis XXI, Imperator XIII, Consul VI, Pater Patriae
Emperor Caesar Nerva Trajan Augustus, son of the god Nerva, the best, (victor against the) Germans, Dacians, Parthians, the Greatest priest, (Proclaimed as one) of Tribunal powers 21 times, (proclaimed) Imperator 13 times, Consul 6 times, father of the fatherland.
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I as referring to Imperator Caesar Gaius Messius Quintus Traianus Decius Pius Felix Invictus Augustus, while Ihsan was referring to Imperator Caesar Divi Nervae Filius Nerva Traianus.
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τρέφεται δέ, ὤ Σώκρατης, ψυχὴ τίνι;
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Imperator Invictus
Caliph
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Posted: 16-Aug-2004 at 21:09 |
I think he's talking about Imperator Caesar Divi Nervae Filius Nerva
Traianus Optimus Augustus Germanicus Dacicus Parthicus, Pontifex
Maximus, Tribuniciae potestatis XXI, Imperator XIII, Consul VI, Pater
Patriae
Emperor Caesar Nerva Trajan Augustus,
son of the god Nerva, the best, (victor against the) Germans, Dacians,
Parthians, the Greatest priest, (Proclaimed as one) of Tribunal powers
21 times, (proclaimed) Imperator 13 times, Consul 6 times, father of
the fatherland.
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ihsan
General
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Posted: 16-Aug-2004 at 16:10 |
Whatever his long Imperial title is
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Lannes
Baron
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Posted: 15-Aug-2004 at 20:28 |
Originally posted by ihsan
TRAIANVS
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Trajanus Decius?
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τρέφεται δέ, ὤ Σώκρατης, ψυχὴ τίνι;
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Mosquito
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Posted: 15-Aug-2004 at 20:26 |
Originally posted by Imperator Invictus
Pater Patriae "Father of the country": Title given to emperors after a certain number of years he has been emperor.
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I would rather say that Pater Patriae means Father of the Fatherland"
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ihsan
General
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Posted: 15-Aug-2004 at 19:04 |
TRAIANVS
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