Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedATATURK!!!
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 23456 7>
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
erci View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 22-Jun-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1426 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: ATATURK!!!
    Posted: 20-Oct-2005 at 14:23
Originally posted by ok ge

Originally posted by erci


No he could be swedish, blue eyes, blonde hair

Swedish!!

   Well, no one here I guess can say where exactly his ancestors came from, but what I heard so far that he is of a Janissary background, so most probably a slav or central European. Maybe Austrain?



that's a new one janissary.your turkmen bodies gotten into that as well?
"When one hears such music, what can one say, but .... Salieri?"
Back to Top
erci View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 22-Jun-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1426 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Oct-2005 at 14:26
Originally posted by Barış



Anyway, I don't understand why every successful or good-looking Turk must be ethnically Greek.


not the greeks, they know he was not greek.it's others who confused and have no slightest idea about him.
"When one hears such music, what can one say, but .... Salieri?"
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Oct-2005 at 14:33
Originally posted by erci

not the greeks, they know he was not greek.it's others who confused and have no slightest idea about him.


It's not just about Atatrk. Post a picture of a good-looking Turk who has white skin and black hair. Some people will immediately react as; "Is she/he Greek?", "Is she/he Armenian?", "You don't believe she/he is from Central Asia, right? Hehe..."
Back to Top
erci View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 22-Jun-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1426 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Oct-2005 at 14:41
Armenians have darker skin than Turks.They are more like Kurds.but you rite about your agression tho you will only get this kind of reaction from ignorants and this forum has bunch of them
"When one hears such music, what can one say, but .... Salieri?"
Back to Top
ok ge View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 29-Aug-2005
Location: Saudi Arabia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1775 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Oct-2005 at 14:42

Originally posted by erci


that's a new one janissary.your turkmen bodies gotten into that as well?
D.J. Kaufman
Wisdom is the reward for a lifetime of listening ... when youd have preferred to talk.
Back to Top
kotumeyil View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 21-Jun-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1494 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Oct-2005 at 16:07

Originally posted by erci

Originally posted by kotumeyil

Shamanism?!?! You cannot say he was shamanist just because he was a Turkish nationalist...


who says i'm saying that because of that? have you ever read the poems written by him?

Would you please share those poems with us? 
[IMG]http://www.maksimum.com/yemeicme/images/haber/raki.jpg">
Back to Top
oTToMAn_TurK View Drop Down
Pretorian
Pretorian
Avatar

Joined: 19-Sep-2005
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 186 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Oct-2005 at 20:42

just curuois does anyone actually know who Ataturks Grandfather is (that would probably anwer most of these questions). i dont think he could be unknown to us, or is he?

coz ive looked all over the net, cant seem to find any info on it, maybe one of u guys know.



Edited by oTToMAn_TurK
Either your a slave to what MADE-MAN
Or your a slave to what MAN-MADE
Back to Top
Seko View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar
Spammer

Joined: 01-Sep-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8595 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Oct-2005 at 20:48

From: http://www.batikoleji.com/Ogrenciler/Ozan/ata-life.html

"Ataturk was born in 1881 at the Kocakasim ward of Salonika, in a three stored pink house located on Islahhane Street. His father is Ali Riza Efendi and his mother Zbeyde Hanim. His paternal grandfather, Hafiz Ahmed Efendi belonged to the Kocacik nomads who were settled in Macedonia during the XIV - XV th centuries. His mother Zbeyde hanim was the daughter of an old Turkish family who had settled in the town of Langasa near Salonika."
Back to Top
OSMANLI View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 24-Nov-2004
Location: North Cyprus
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 740 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Oct-2005 at 06:02
Erci please show some links to your theory about Ataturk being a shamon. I heard before (cant remember who) in this forum that he was Alevi. Its seems every wants to have similarities with M.K.A, at any cost
Back to Top
ISLAMIC EMPIRE View Drop Down
Janissary
Janissary


Joined: 06-Oct-2005
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 28 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Oct-2005 at 20:06
i just read on the net he destroyed religous frameworks Sunni as well as Alevi   ive got another link that he himself saying that there is no God let me find it and ill link it
life it seems will fade away
drifting farther every day
all i gotta do is pray
nothing matters, no-one else
simply nothing more to give
there is nothing more for me
i need the end to set me free
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Oct-2005 at 23:38
I'm waiting with great patience.
Back to Top
ISLAMIC EMPIRE View Drop Down
Janissary
Janissary


Joined: 06-Oct-2005
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 28 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2005 at 02:13

i have found this great piece of information on this link

http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/index.php/articles/mustafa-ke mal-ataturk-the-enemy-of-islam

it is labeled: Mustafa Kemal Ataturk The Enemy Of Islam

and here da piece: "Islam - this theology of an immoral Arab - is a dead thing. Possibly it might have suited tribes in the desert. It is no good for modern, progressive state. Gods revelation! There is no God! These are only the chains by which the priests and bad rulers bound the people down. A ruler who needs religion is a weakling. No weaklings should rule!"

It is well worth to read the whole info. It lays him out. His TRUE self.
life it seems will fade away
drifting farther every day
all i gotta do is pray
nothing matters, no-one else
simply nothing more to give
there is nothing more for me
i need the end to set me free
Back to Top
kotumeyil View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 21-Jun-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1494 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2005 at 02:21

Do you believe that he can say such words?!? Even if he believed these, he wouldn't say. He was a politician. How could he get popular support in such a way? On the contrary, he legitimised many reforms through Islam. For example, when he abolished caliphate, he said in true Islam, there shouldn't be any mediators between the God and the person...

And the site you referred is obviously a radical Islamist propaganda site...
[IMG]http://www.maksimum.com/yemeicme/images/haber/raki.jpg">
Back to Top
ISLAMIC EMPIRE View Drop Down
Janissary
Janissary


Joined: 06-Oct-2005
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 28 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2005 at 09:23
who are you refering the mediator is?
life it seems will fade away
drifting farther every day
all i gotta do is pray
nothing matters, no-one else
simply nothing more to give
there is nothing more for me
i need the end to set me free
Back to Top
kotumeyil View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 21-Jun-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1494 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2005 at 09:24
the caliph...
[IMG]http://www.maksimum.com/yemeicme/images/haber/raki.jpg">
Back to Top
ISLAMIC EMPIRE View Drop Down
Janissary
Janissary


Joined: 06-Oct-2005
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 28 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2005 at 09:27

i wouldnt know how people will be organised and stay as good or even true muslims without the caliph.... dont you think they would have been corrupted without someone using the laws of allah to hold the muslims together? like what other way could there be that people would maintain their religion without entering jahililah (if thats the correct word) or does there have to be a system or someone to hold the religion together to avoid corruption.....?
life it seems will fade away
drifting farther every day
all i gotta do is pray
nothing matters, no-one else
simply nothing more to give
there is nothing more for me
i need the end to set me free
Back to Top
Mortaza View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar

Joined: 21-Jul-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3711 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2005 at 09:33

Even if he believed these, he wouldn't say. He was a politician

kotumeyil  is right, maybe he is against islam or not. But He is not stupid. Saying this words at that times are stupidy.

I think that Ataturk was neutral against islam.His campaign has no relation with islam. He used it when He can used it, and he fight against it, when Islam has conflicts with his campaign.

I dont think we can call him as enemy of islam or protector of islam. He is a nationalist, and did what he think good for his nation.

 
Back to Top
kotumeyil View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 21-Jun-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1494 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2005 at 09:36
Before the abolition there wasn't such a role of the caliphate. It was generally used as a political title. I recall few religious sultans. As far as I know, few of them performed the religious duties well.  I don't know any pilgrim sultans. I mean even before the abolition of the caliphate, there wasn't such a role of the caliphs. On the other hand there are (and were) a lot of sects in Islam in conflict with each other so today caliphate is unrealistic I think... By the way these don't interest me much since I'm an atheist 
[IMG]http://www.maksimum.com/yemeicme/images/haber/raki.jpg">
Back to Top
ISLAMIC EMPIRE View Drop Down
Janissary
Janissary


Joined: 06-Oct-2005
Location: Australia
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 28 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2005 at 10:25

Ataturks aim was to get rid of all roots of islam away from the turks. i cant blieve u guys cant see this. everything he did was trying to make muslims look like non-muslims. think about it.

abolished the sultanate (got rid of the last sultan even though he was inicent)

today many european countries still have the royal family as a symbolic influence for the people (britain, denmark, holland, belguim, etc) away from europe includes (emporer of japan, china, etc). Turkey wont even let the desendants of the sultan in the country. why? coz there considerd as traitors to nation, which was prooved rong.

abolishing caliphate (only 6 months after he got in power)

if the caliphate stayed he would have had some loyalty from other muslim countries, which would hav made Turkey a globally popular state. (indonesia, malaysia, afghanistan, pakistan and some african countries like tunisia were still loyal to the caliph)

changing the arabic letters to latin

Yer sure its easier, its good but just think about it was ataturks real aim to make turkish litereture improve or was it to make sure the next generation of turkish muslims wont undersatnd and study (unless ur a historian) the islmaic culture left from the ottomans. hardly any turk knows how to read the koran these days in its original arabic form.

bringing the european hats

did use no that ataturk hanged 5000 people just becoz they refused to replace there muslim sariks for the euro hats (which is normal for a dictator). there is a story about this man who was about to get hanged for this reason. the judge ask this man "look we dont have to kill u, all u have to do is take off that sarik on ur hed and put on this hat, they are both pieces of cloth arnt they, whats the difference?" the man answerd in a cool way "ok, u are rite, but then if theres no diffeernce then why dont u take off that turkish flag behind you and put on a greek flag, there both peices of cloth arnt they" the judge in a very angry way proceded in sentencing him to death. 

Changing the ezan to turkish "Tanri Uludur instead of Allahu Ekber"

from 1932-1950 coz of a law that ataturk made the universally excepted arabic form of the ezan was changed to turkish. even when doing this he was careful not to reveal all of the words of the ezan so people wont get ideas. hayal el-fellah which usually means come to be saved (haydin kurtulusa) was translated to haydin fellaha. got to hand it to him he was really smart at what he did. no turk knew what that word meant (fellaha).

this is all that i can think about at the moment. have a ore open mind please his real aim was actually to destroy islam from the mumin turk milleti.
life it seems will fade away
drifting farther every day
all i gotta do is pray
nothing matters, no-one else
simply nothing more to give
there is nothing more for me
i need the end to set me free
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Oct-2005 at 10:59
Originally posted by ISLAMIC EMPIRE

abolished the sultanate (got rid of the last sultan even though he was inicent)

The sultanete which was cooperating with the enemy? Any Turk, die-hard religious or an atheist, will appreciate Atatrk for that.

Originally posted by ISLAMIC EMPIRE

today many european countries still have the royal family as a symbolic influence for the people (britain, denmark, holland, belguim, etc) away from europe includes (emporer of japan, china, etc). Turkey wont even let the desendants of the sultan in the country. why? coz there considerd as traitors to nation, which was prooved rong.

Ah, they may not be traitors, but their forefathers definetely were. Anyway you are misinformed, any descendant of the Ottoman Dynasty can return to Turkey whenever he wishes. In those countries, Ottoman Emperor would be executed, rather than being exiled.

Originally posted by ISLAMIC EMPIRE

abolishing caliphate (only 6 months after he got in power)

We are secular, do you understand? We don't want anything about religion in politics. You don't like it? Then live in a Islamic state, as if we should care...

Originally posted by ISLAMIC EMPIRE

Yer sure its easier, its good but just think about it was ataturks real aim to make turkish litereture improve or was it to make sure the next generation of turkish muslims wont undersatnd and study (unless ur a historian) the islmaic culture left from the ottomans. hardly any turk knows how to read the koran these days in its original arabic form.

There are Turkish versions of Quran.

Originally posted by ISLAMIC EMPIRE

Changing the ezan to turkish "Tanri Uludur instead of Allahu Ekber"

We are Turks, not Arabs. It's that simple.

Originally posted by ISLAMIC EMPIRE

from 1932-1950 coz of a law that ataturk made the universally excepted arabic form of the ezan was changed to turkish. even when doing this he was careful not to reveal all of the words of the ezan so people wont get ideas. hayal el-fellah which usually means come to be saved (haydin kurtulusa) was translated to haydin fellaha. got to hand it to him he was really smart at what he did. no turk knew what that word meant (fellaha).

Ezan is a calling. Words are not important. You mean, Turkish people were trying to understand something which could be heard five times a day?

Edited by Barış
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 23456 7>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.