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Topic: M. Kemal Atatrk Posted: 28-Sep-2005 at 09:02 |
Please don't vote unless you are a non-Turkish muslim, because I want to know other people's opinions about him.
Edited by Barış
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azimuth
Caliph
SlaYer'S SlaYer
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Posted: 28-Sep-2005 at 09:06 |
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Ahmed The Fighter
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Lion of Babylon
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Posted: 28-Sep-2005 at 10:16 |
I think he had both sides.
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"May the eyes of cowards never sleep"
Khalid Bin Walid
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oTToMAn_TurK
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Posted: 28-Sep-2005 at 10:35 |
why exactly do use think that he betrayed islam? is it becoz of his action to abolish the caliph or his new laws that he implemetned or...
why?
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Either your a slave to what MADE-MAN
Or your a slave to what MAN-MADE
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Ahmed The Fighter
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Posted: 28-Sep-2005 at 10:42 |
He defeated allied forces at galipoli and modernized Turky,By treaty of sever he accomplished a great achievment this achievments made him national hero with no doubt.
consumed Arminian,removed Islamic culture from schools,convert Turkish letters from Arabic to Latin,demanded Mousel from iraq,overrun Iskandarona from Syria, this events made him the second choice with racist intentions.
my personal or emotional opinion Ilike him because he defeated England,France,Greece at war when they were invincibleand gave them a lesson.
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"May the eyes of cowards never sleep"
Khalid Bin Walid
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Guests
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Posted: 28-Sep-2005 at 10:55 |
What's wrong with the Latin letters?
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The Hidden Face
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Ustad-i Azam
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Posted: 28-Sep-2005 at 10:59 |
What was wrong with arabic letters?
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Mortaza
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Posted: 28-Sep-2005 at 11:03 |
so It is neutral point, I dont think arabic letters are rule for islam.
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Guests
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Posted: 28-Sep-2005 at 11:15 |
Originally posted by THE TURK
What was wrong with arabic letters? |
I think it is more difficult to learn how to read and write in Arabic. Anyone who doesn't agree?
Edited by Barış
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oTToMAn_TurK
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Posted: 28-Sep-2005 at 11:26 |
Originally posted by Bar
Originally posted by THE TURK
What was wrong with arabic letters? | I think it is more difficult to learn how to read and write in Arabic. Anyone who doesn't agree? |
it looks difficult but if it wer the offical alphabet of the nation then i dont think anyone would have complained. after all the ottomans had no problem wif it for centuries. i think the latin alphabet is an advantage for turks more then the arabic alphabet since it suits the needs of the turkish sound system better that way. the onli disadvantage i gess is that we now cannot read the holy kuran in its pure arabic form unless we make the attempt to learn it which is possible.
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Either your a slave to what MADE-MAN
Or your a slave to what MAN-MADE
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Guests
Guest
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Posted: 28-Sep-2005 at 11:37 |
demanded Mousel from iraq,overrun Iskandarona from Syria, this events made him the second choice with racist intentions. |
Iskenderun joined Turkey by people's votes. Mosul was a Turkmen dominated city once. It wasnt arabs defending Mosul against British so it wasnt their right to own Mosul. If there was anyone to rule Mosul after Turks, it may be Kurds, but not much Arabs stepped on Mosul before Saddam settled them. And I dont think these make a person racist...
We had similar discussions before and we all seen the general nationalistic Arabic attitude calling him a blonde vampire for their holy Islamic jihad souls (Al Beduin). So why discussing it again? I dont care how others judge or consider his actions, if they consider these as racism, I am a racist for them, if they consider these as Hinduism, I am the darkest Hindu in this forum. And I dont give a rats ass.
I didnt vote here, but I see him as a mahdi. Saving us and Islam from the Arab racist, oppressive and backwardness of Sunnite authority...
Edited by Oguzoglu
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Guests
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Posted: 28-Sep-2005 at 11:48 |
I agree, Atatrk was a nationalist, not a racist. By the way, what do you think about secularism?
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Cent
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Posted: 28-Sep-2005 at 11:54 |
Ataturk ruined everything for Kurds and Armenians in the early 1920s... We both were promised much but he ruined it all... It's because of him Northern Kurdistan doesn't exist.
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They don't speak enough about the Kurds, because we have never taken hostages, never hijacked a plane. But I am proud of this.
Abdul Rahman Qassemlou
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oTToMAn_TurK
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Posted: 28-Sep-2005 at 11:54 |
wow mehdi hah thats sumfin new. they called called him hero, gazi, traitor, fascist and even the deccal. but mehdi is sumfin i havnt herd before. LOL
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Either your a slave to what MADE-MAN
Or your a slave to what MAN-MADE
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Guests
Guest
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Posted: 28-Sep-2005 at 12:16 |
Originally posted by Cent
Ataturk ruined everything for Kurds and Armenians in the early 1920s... We both were promised much but he ruined it all... It's because of him Northern Kurdistan doesn't exist.
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Ah please, not again... Atatrk's best friend, İsmet İnn was also Kurdish and he is considered to be a national hero in Turkey.
Edited by Barış
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ok ge
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Posted: 28-Sep-2005 at 12:41 |
Originally posted by Oguzoglu
Mosul was a Turkmen dominated city once. It wasnt arabs defending Mosul against British so it wasnt their right to own Mosul. If there was anyone to rule Mosul after Turks, it may be Kurds, but not much Arabs stepped on Mosul before Saddam settled them |
So if Mosul was "once" a Turkmen dominated city that gives the right to Turkey to take it? I guess you are talking about Kirkuk. Mosul was never a dominated Turkmen city. Was built by the Assyrians, became Roman, and later as the Ummayids placed it the capital of mesepotemia, it became domenantly Arab before the Mongul destroyed it and built again. Even before Saddam, the city was with an Arab majority.
Your second claim that after Turks, Kurds have a second claim for the city. I think Kurds have a prior claim than Turks to the city, however, even maps of greater Kurdistan shows Mosel either on the border or out of the Kurdish area.
Now regarding Kemal,
I chose both. He had fought for Turky's indepandance and "tried" to modernize Turkey. However, he took the wrong way in reforming Turkey. Instead of focusing on greater issues that our brothers in some Musilm Asian countries did and succeeded with, he chose the extreme secularism to modernize Turkey. I don't care about changing the alphabet from Arabic to Latin ,though I don't understand how is this will reform the country . However, to take extreme measures of secularism where even women cannot wear Hijab in government offices and schools, universities is sad. France itself didn't adopt the law of banning Hijab except last year. Turkey did it since 80 years ago! Furthermore, great superpowers and nations do not have clothes code that is anti-religious. How is Hijab is an issue to advance the country ! that I have no clue about it .
Sadly today it is ruled by a military dictatorship. In fact, a law exist by 1951 where If any intellectual or journalist criticizes Ataturk, he or she can be imprisoned for as many as 15 years as the case of Hakan Albayrak. Women students or professors can be thrown out of university for covering their heads. Bribery and other forms of corruption are the order of the day. Economically, the country's condition is mediocre and in technology is behind many Muslim and Asian countries. Malaysia
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D.J. Kaufman
Wisdom is the reward for a lifetime of listening ... when youd have preferred to talk.
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Mortaza
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Posted: 28-Sep-2005 at 13:16 |
Ataturk didnt claimed any place that has not owned by ottomans. Calling him because of this claims as fasist is complately stupid.
For ruining kurds and armenians, arent they fight each other mainly? For northern kurdistan, It is also ottomans land. Ottomans died for this land, not kurds. Noone took land free.
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Mortaza
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Posted: 28-Sep-2005 at 13:20 |
For betrayer thing, If I am not wrong, Arabs dont like to be called as betrayer, do they like to call others as betrayer?
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Guests
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Posted: 28-Sep-2005 at 13:36 |
@ok ge
Can you tell me one Islamic state which is "more modern" than Turkey?
Turkish Army is not ruling the country, that's not true. If you are talking about the military coups, all I can say that the army cannot stand and watch while fascists, Islamists and the other anarchists are ruining everything!
Our technology is behind many Muslim countries? I don't think I get it. Which countries are we talking about?
By the way, Hakan Albayrak was to be imprisoned for 15 months and he was freed after 6 months.
Edited by Barış
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Mortaza
Tsar
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Posted: 28-Sep-2005 at 13:38 |
Turkish Army is not ruling the country, that's not true. If you are talking about military coups, all I can say that the army cannot stand and watch while fascists, Islamists and the other anarchists are ruining everything!
They should stand. They are not decision giver for Turkish people. You know we have a goverment choosen by Turks, army should follow their order.
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