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Help! Tatar versus Tartar

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Tangriberdi View Drop Down
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  Quote Tangriberdi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Help! Tatar versus Tartar
    Posted: 03-Sep-2006 at 15:48
Originally posted by barbar

 
 If they self designated themselves with a Mongolic word, then there is no reason to say they were exclusively or mainly Turkic tribes.
 
There are some linguistic assumptions regarding the proper name Tatar.
Some Anatolian Turkish academician and linguistis claim that the self designation name Tatar can not be necessarily of Monolian origin., although the name showing Mongolic characteristics.
I think I am fish minded. I always forget the names of books or articles that I can provide.  So I do not remember again in where I read it. But Some Turkish scientists and experts on the topic says that the Tatar name was consisted of two parts which later amagamated and formed a name.  Acording to this , Tatar is a combination of Tat and Er. The first one meant Foreign , Stranger, Non-native . This tat was used to other peoples that are not of Turkic stock , later it was used to specifically for Iranian peoples.
Er meant man, human
So Tat er meant Foreign man, Foreigner.
Tat+er later turned into Tatar.
If this assumption is true, it also confirms that Turkic speaking Tatars also included some non-Turkic elements and that is why they were called foreigners.
I do not know if this is true. You know some Turkish scientists are really in love with pseudo science. Tongue


Edited by Tangriberdi - 03-Sep-2006 at 15:50
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gok_toruk View Drop Down
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  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Sep-2006 at 01:53
Well, we've got the word and its derivations in Turkmen. The most famous one, is: 'woshy tataq' = somebody who has lived in deserts. Totally, 'tatar' means 'man who lives in the desert'. It's almost equal to 'qyrqiz'.

And I don't know which line it is, but I'll quote from the book:

'Otuz tatar 9 Oghuz beklery; budunuM; bu sabymyn gty eshyt qatyghty tyngla (Orkhon Inscriptions - p22
Ergin - p49)

I'll look for other lines, since it's very frequent in Turkic inscriptions.
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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Tangriberdi View Drop Down
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  Quote Tangriberdi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Sep-2006 at 13:01
Originally posted by gok_toruk

Well, we've got the word and its derivations in Turkmen. The most famous one, is: 'woshy tataq' = somebody who has lived in deserts. Totally, 'tatar' means 'man who lives in the desert'. It's almost equal to 'qyrqiz'.

And I don't know which line it is, but I'll quote from the book:

'Otuz tatar 9 Oghuz beklery; budunuM; bu sabymyn gty eshyt qatyghty tyngla (Orkhon Inscriptions - p22
Ergin - p49)

I'll look for other lines, since it's very frequent in Turkic inscriptions.
I heard that some people here in Turkey especially in Aegean region   use the word Tat(adj.) to refer to incovenient soil, improper land, uninhabited area. But the sources I have do not contain information regarding this meaning .
Uninhabited area may be a dessert?
 


Edited by Tangriberdi - 04-Sep-2006 at 13:02
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gok_toruk View Drop Down
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  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Sep-2006 at 15:31
By desert, I mean a totally isolated place. It doesn't necessarily mean 'no water; no jungle'. It's exactly as you explained.
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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