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Help! Tatar versus Tartar

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Scytho-Sarmatian View Drop Down
Earl
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  Quote Scytho-Sarmatian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Help! Tatar versus Tartar
    Posted: 14-Sep-2004 at 02:34

This is what I've read, but I'm not sure how much of it is fiction or truth:

The Tatars were a Turkic (?) tribe on the western border of Mongolia that had been subjugated by the Mongols.  Consequently, they provided a large contigent of forces which the Mongols used primarily in the invasions of Central Asia, Eastern Europe, and West Asia.  In other words, the majority of the troops used by the Mongols in those areas would actually have been Tatars, while a smaller core of "true" Mongols maintained command.  Therefore, the Europeans would probably have known the invaders as "Tatars," which they re-interpreted as "Tartars," or people from Tartarus.

Or something like that.

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Imperator Invictus View Drop Down
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  Quote Imperator Invictus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Sep-2004 at 16:28
Right.

Tatar comes from chinese ta-ta-er, a nomadic tribe conquered by Chingiz
Tartar comes from greek/latin Tartaros, meaning the underworld.

When Chingiz and his successors went west, they called his men Tartars, as people from hell. Coincidentally, this was similar to Tatar, so the two are confused, and became almost interchangible in use. Some modern sholars prefer to use Tatar to describe the "Mongols" who settled west, although in old european documents, the word "Tartar" was used.


Edited by Imperator Invictus
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Temujin View Drop Down
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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Sep-2004 at 16:19
tatar is the name for the tribe that was subdued by Chingis Khan, Tartar is the word used by the European west (especially Russians) for all Mongols.
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Guests View Drop Down
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Sep-2004 at 06:09
What IS the difference? I know there is one but I'm hard pressed to sort it out from the numerous pieces of  amazing info I've been reaping on the net.

You all seem the wise and well-read sort who could help me out here...


Thanks for any assistance and enjoy your Sunday.


J



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