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How old is Turkic language?

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  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: How old is Turkic language?
    Posted: 03-Oct-2006 at 01:47
hmm i allways thought AYDIN was a persian word for bright?
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  Quote barbar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Oct-2006 at 08:29

It is a very obvious Turkic word. Ay--Moon. Ayding is the light of the moon. You should know we have a saying like "Ayding keche", the night with the moon light. There are many love poems about this.

Either make a history or become a history.
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  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Oct-2006 at 11:21
Originally posted by barbar


It is a very obvious Turkic word. Ay--Moon. Ayding is the light of the moon. You should know we have a saying like "Ayding keche", the night with the moon light. There are many love poems about this.

hmm thats what i allways thought but I read  somewere that it was persian.
 
aydin gece(turkish) the bright night
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  Quote AFG-PaShTuN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Nov-2006 at 21:42
Thank you very much to all of you for contributing to this thread, but guys, i still didn't get my question asnwered in a well detailed response.

Anyone please?

Like when and where it originated from? If i'm not mistaken, Turkish originates from Eastern China? Correct me if i'm wrong.
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  Quote xi_tujue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Nov-2006 at 05:09

the Turkish spoken in anatolia is verry similar spoken in east turkestan.

but since turks originaly came from mongolia and settled in east turkestan later i must say it comes from mongolia

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  Quote Tangriberdi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Nov-2006 at 13:27
Originally posted by xi_tujue

Originally posted by barbar


It is a very obvious Turkic word. Ay--Moon. Ayding is the light of the moon. You should know we have a saying like "Ayding keche", the night with the moon light. There are many love poems about this.

hmm thats what i allways thought but I read  somewere that it was persian.
 
aydin gece(turkish) the bright night
Where did you read it? It is ridiculous. Aydin comnes from the word Ay, Moon and the suffix -din, from
Word by word it means (the light ) from the moon. By time it turned into an adjective. It is used as both a noun and an adjective. 
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  Quote AFG-PaShTuN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Nov-2006 at 20:18
Originally posted by xi_tujue

the Turkish spoken in anatolia is verry similar spoken in east turkestan.

but since turks originaly came from mongolia and settled in east turkestan later i must say it comes from mongolia



Teshekur Canim, hehe.

So you are saying that the Turkmens and the Turks of modern Turkey kind of speak the same dialect? Like a Turkman won't have any problem understanding a Turk from Turkey while conversing?

We have a good amount of Turkmen in our district, in North Afghanistan, maybe i can learn Turkish from them if they are both relatively the same.
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  Quote Tangriberdi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Nov-2006 at 09:44
Yes you can
It will sound just like a dialect in Turkey .
The only difference Turkmen acdent and Turkish accent is Turkmen palatalization of s and z
 
Turkish: Benim bir kizim var . O alti yashindadir. Gzleri yeshil sachi saridir.
Turkmen: Mening bir gyzym bar. Ol alty yashyndadyr. Gzleri yashyl sachy sarydyr.
 
I have a daughter, six, with green eyes and blonde hair .


Edited by Tangriberdi - 12-Nov-2006 at 09:48
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  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Nov-2006 at 09:44
There are three main dialects.

Oghuz, Chaghtai Turki and Kipchak (Northern)

Oghuz Turkish is mutually intellegeble and is the Turkish spoken in the Balkans (Bulgaria, Greece, Kosovo, Moldova-Gagauz, Macedonia...), Turkey, Northern Cyprus, Azerbaycan, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Turkmenistan, parts of Northern Afganistan. Now the Turki of Crimean Tatars, Nogays, Astrakan/Kazan Tatars is also mutually intellegeble however they are really Kipchak yet due to the Ottoman influence are heavily influenced by Oghuz style.

The main difference between the above are "accent", regional lexical borrowings and differences. Its possible to interact with a Turkish speaker of Bulgaria, watch a film in Azerbaycan, go on holiday in Turkey, visit parts of Iran etc etc if you learned Turkish in one of these countries.

Chaghtai Turki was once the lingua franca in Central Asia (Turkistan), it is a highly developed and rich dialect. Mainly spoken in Ozbekistan, by Uygur Turks (Eastern Turkistan province), Northern Afganistan.

It has a relatively high mutual intellegebility with Oghuz Turkish. A Turkish speaker of Azerbaycan or Turkey doesn't have to go to a language school to learn it, if they stay among Turki speakers of this dialect they'll pick it up in a short time.

I don't have expertise in Kipchak dialect, somebody who does would be better explaining it.    
    

Edited by Bulldog - 12-Nov-2006 at 09:46
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  Quote Kapikulu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Nov-2006 at 11:51

First known speakers: Xiongnu

First known alphabet: Tujue(Gktrk), then Uighurs had created another alphabet..
 
Used in a very wide area,from Sinkiang-Mongolia to Anatolia, and thanks to our Gastarbeiters, now everywhere around Europe :D..
 
 and known to be spoken around 2300-2500 years.
 
There was a banned guy who wrote that it was "invented" by AtatrkBig smile..For those who don't know, he changed the official script to Latin alphabet instead of Arabic alphabet, that's it.
 
And Turkish is categorized into: Western Turkish and Eastern Turkish...
 
Azeris, and Turks speak Western Turkish, and can quite easily understand each other, while Eastern Turkish is what is spoken all over Turkistan...Even though it is the same language in roots, there had been significant changes in words, but the Eastern Turkish is closer to the original.
 
And it is not descended to the Sumerians as wellTongue
 
 


Edited by Kapikulu - 12-Nov-2006 at 11:54
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  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Nov-2006 at 12:02

It's not only palatalization. Turkmen and Turkish are not totally intelligible as you might be proposed.

A recent discussion - Northern Turkmen vs. Anatolian - in 'Steppes and Central Asia' is still open.


Edited by gok_toruk - 12-Nov-2006 at 12:03
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Nov-2006 at 20:07
Again, the official language of Turkmenistan and Turkish is mutually intellegeble.

Turkmenistan Wikipedia

http://tk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page

    
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  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2006 at 02:15
http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14659&PN=1
 
This is what I was mentioning Afg - Pashtun.
 
 
Now, this is Wikipedia. It say Turkmen has no irregular verbs while it really has got irregular verbs I told you about (yatir < yatqu). Wikipedia says Turkmen has got vowel harmony while in reality, Turkmen doesn't have total vowel harmony (kitaqan bermely < instead of kitken bermely).
 
I, myself, can edit a page or so called 'talk's in Wikipedia to broadcast my own idea.


Edited by gok_toruk - 13-Nov-2006 at 03:18
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Nov-2006 at 09:53
Look there are no need for conspiracy theories about the "Tekke" and hours of debate, if you want the answer we can do it the easy way.

GokToruk I didn't use English Wikipedia, I used Turkmen Wikipedia and not to show any articles but to show the official language used which is mutually intellegeble.

Kpetdag

Aşgabat şaherinin yakynynda yerleşen bir dagdyr.

Wiki

"Oka! wren! Dret! Seniň ylymli, bilimli bolmagyň kuwwatly Watan in derkardyr" szi maňa diilipdir dinler in. Kuwwatly Watan in Okaanlar, wrennler we Drednleriň topary.

http://www.tmolympiad.org/

In Turkiye Turkish only difference is some spellings,

Oku, Oren, Oret! Senn, ilimi, bilimi........

This is official Turkmenistan language, there can be other accents as in all countries. If I started posting some examples of say Geordie or Glaswegian English you may think hey that sounds different but it's still English.




    

Edited by Bulldog - 13-Nov-2006 at 09:55
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  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Nov-2006 at 13:16
See, Bulldog, you're always referring to the slightest form of Tekke which is not the most correct form. When it comes to writing, Kazak would be easy also, anyhow; although not closer than Turkmen to a Turkish speaker.
 
I've told the forumers this was only Tekke. Much Turkmens would say this way:
 
'oqiyaqa. Ogrengyn. Toretkyl. Seng shat, bilke bolmoqyng, moqo ulkemiz uchun, tuwushyan tyr...'.
 
This is the correct Turkmen form which uses suffixes like 'gyn' and 'kyl'. You also observe words like 'shat', 'moqo' and 'tuwushky' which is specific to Turkmen and not Anatolian Turkish.
 
Tekke is not the most correct form. In fact, for most of Turkmens, it's considered kind of an accent.
Sajaja bramani totari ta, raitata raitata, radu ridu raitata, rota.
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  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Nov-2006 at 16:40
How can you say this, most Turkmens wouldn't write or say it like that, I'm quoting official Turkmen language material, its the Turkmen used in in Turkmenistan Government, schools etc look at Wiki in Turkmen language and Turkmen sites.
 
Im sure if everybody was to post different accents we'd get loads of variations but accents are not the official language. When I first heard people in Eastern Black-Sea in Turkey I thought they were speaking another language but after listening for a bit I realised its just an accent and is easily understandable once the ear adjusts.
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  Quote Tangriberdi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Nov-2006 at 19:32
Originally posted by gok_toruk

Ogrengyn. Toretkyl.
In old Anatolian Turkish - gin and- gil imperative suffix were in use too.
So what if some Turkmen dialects stilll use it?
This doers not the change the fact that our languages are still close...
In old Anatolian Turkish virgil! meant Give!
Algyl meant Take!
 I think It is the same thing.
Also in Old Anatolian Turkish
Instead of present modern Alin ,( take (you) !) Algın was used.
You exert a huge effort to show that Turkish spoken in Turkey is not an offspring of Turkmen  language , but still you fail.
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  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Nov-2006 at 15:01
Because I'm a Turkmen and you're not. That's why you use only Tekke; seems like you don't know much about the other dominant dialects. You're considering the official language as the most correct one, while it's almost a slight, easy-to-learn tongue.

For sure, you can't teach me Turkmen language and its dialects. This is not the place to see if you understand Turkmen or not; or else I would bring examples of the correct Turkmen langauge which you won't get even ONE word; let alone for understanding it.

Well, if only Tekke satisfies, you might be right. But for sure, you'll have a hard time communicating with a Ersary, Saryq or Salur and many more. That's why I'm not as satisfied as you are.
    
    

Edited by gok_toruk - 15-Nov-2006 at 15:38
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  Quote gok_toruk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Nov-2006 at 15:17
I didn't say 'kyl' and 'gyn' were unique to Turkmen since they're common Turkic. I'm saying a dialect out of 5 would not be the proof you might be looking for. Tekke is closer; but not as close as you might think. Ozbek, although Chagatai, could be easily read by Turkish speakers, but are they also of the same origin?

Alright, I fail, but you, as a winner hasn't been able to post something which can support your idea:

http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14659&PN=1

- Kymqa ayitip saymaghyl ornyngta; myncha men itenler yatir qum bolyp -

A Tekke proverb. Take it as my response to your post.
    

Edited by gok_toruk - 15-Nov-2006 at 15:32
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  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Nov-2006 at 15:58
Gok_Toruk
Because I'm a Turkmen and you're not. That's why you use only Tekke;
seems like you don't know much about the other dominant dialects.
 
I cannot believe this, why are you pretending that "Tekke" isn't significant or as if it's just another accent.
 
 
Tekke is dominant, its the official language what could be more dominant, the example's I posted are official Turkmenistan language, nobody writes Turkmen as in the examples you have given. There are regional accents and they speak like this but in schools the style I gave is taught and its used in government.
 
 
Gok_Toruk
You're considering the official language as the most correct one, while it's almost a slight, easy-to-learn tongue.
 
No, the official is the official doesn't make it better or worse it's just the accepted one which represents the country.

I would bring examples of the correct Turkmen langauge which you won't get even ONE word; let alone for understanding it.
 
Again, what is the "most" correct, most would totally disagree and dismiss the sentances your giving as a regional northern accent.
 
There are regional accents in all countries, I'm sure Turkey has some pretty tough one's aswell.
Gok_Toruk
Well, if only Tekke satisfies, you might be right. But for sure, you'll have a hard time communicating with a Ersary, Saryq or Salur and many more. That's why I'm not as satisfied as you are.
 
Salur's are also in Turkey.
 
The Turkish of Turkey, Azerbaycan, Iran, Balkans, Northern Cyprus etc is derived from Turkmenistan and are all "Oghuz" this is accepted by linguists internationally, the Southern Turkic branch is called Oghuz.
 
 
 

 


Edited by Bulldog - 15-Nov-2006 at 16:01
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