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Scythia means Parthia and Persia (Part of Iran)

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Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Scythia means Parthia and Persia (Part of Iran)
    Posted: 10-Sep-2004 at 07:29

Parthia (Persian Part) = Part, Portion, Patch, Piece form Old French Pieche from Latin Partiri
Persia (Persian Pars) = Parish, Parcel, Portion

What about Scythia (Persian Saka)?

Shift from Old Enlish sciftan = Old Persian shkiftan, Pahlavi and Modern Persian shekaftan, Old Frisian skifta, Old German schiften, schichten, Old Norse skipta (divide, separate)
Score from Old Norse Skora = Old Persian Shkar (make an incision, cut, prey)
Schizo- from Greek Skhizein (split, divide, separate)
Section from Latin secare (cut, split)
Shield from Old English scildan (divide, separate)

Find the origin of these words yourselves:
Segment
Sheaf
Separate
Split
Skirt
Shirt
Short
Shear
Secret
Shard
Share
Slit
Sunder
Screen
Sever
...



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  Quote Rava Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Sep-2004 at 14:04

Russians call Scythians - Skiffy

You have touched something that was not discovered yet, Cyrus. Procopius describing the way of living of Antes and Sclaveni wrote that in an ancient times Antes and Sclaveni were named Sporos i.e. diffused, dispersed. It seems that this word (diffused) could be the general description of the Scythian tribes despite the particular name of each of them. Maybe our Turkish members could explain the meaning of another descriptive term Apar which appeared in some Turkic inscriptions concerning the entire area from the Tarim Basin to the Caucasus. 

If this could be confirmed in the sources ... seems that Procopius knew that Sklaveni and Antes were the Scythian descendants as well. Arab sources name Sclaveni Sakaliba.  

 



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  Quote Sharrukin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Sep-2004 at 23:28

"Parthia" and "Persia" were related words in Old Iranian.  "Persia" (Old Persian, Parsa and "Parthia" (Old Persian, Parthava meant "borderland".  The Assyrians knew of at least two Iranian "borderlands".  One was on the frontier of Media itself, known as Parsua, and the other was located on the southeastern frontier of Elam, known as Parsumash, which was the Parsa of the Old Persian inscriptions and the present-day province of Fars.  The place-name "Parthia" was a relatively newer term.  It does not occur in the Zend Avesta, which had other place-names for this region.  It was probably the "borderland" of the Median Empire.

The meaning of "Scythia" is rather problematic.  The Greeks called the Scythians {i]Skuthai and the Assyrians called them Ashguzai or Ishguzai which points to the original name of this steppe people.  Some theories abound but none hold wide acceptance. 

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  Quote ihsan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Sep-2004 at 17:20

Originally posted by Rava

Maybe our Turkish members could explain the meaning of another descriptive term Apar which appeared in some Turkic inscriptions concerning the entire area from the Tarim Basin to the Caucasus.

The name Apar is nothing but the Turkic version of Avar.

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  Quote Rava Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Oct-2004 at 04:57

The word "(A)Par" appeared arround the date of death of Bumn Qaghan i.e. 533 AD in Bilge Qaghan and Kl Tigin inscriptions. Covered nations and countries between Tibet and Byzantium. But much earlier,in an Armenian source between 442 -495 AD, the word Apar was used to describe "Kushan Country" ( at this time under rule of the Hephtalites ), probably today's Khorasan.

Nishapur, Tus, Koshm, Wrkan were mentioned as Apar -shahr in later Armenian sources, generaly meaning Northeastern Persia and Aria. Then if Apar means Avar it would support the thesis that in the majority Avars were in fact the Central Asian Var and Chionite tribes.



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  Quote Sharrukin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Oct-2004 at 12:43
Abarshahr (the region of Nishapur) was known as such, as far back as the time of the Parthian king Phraates II (138-128 BC), in Parthian coin issues of the region.  The name continues into the time of the Sassanids.  In an inscription of Shapur I (240-270 AD), Abarshahr is among the domains subject to him.
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Oct-2004 at 14:17
Abar-shahr=Super-city, Abar (Pahlavi Apar) means "Over", this prefix is also used when we want to say something is very large, for example: Abarkuh=A very large mountain, Abarmard=Great man, Abarcomputer=Mainframe, ...

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  Quote Rava Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Oct-2004 at 16:57
Interesting. In Rus Yearbooks and in other Slavic sources the Avars were named Obry ( plural from Obr, perhaps name derived from Abars, Abaris one of the tribes in Avar confederacy). This term later existed as the synonymus of "enormously big person"
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  Quote Sharrukin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Oct-2004 at 00:01
The problem here is that the name Abarshahr appears almost 700 years before any mention of the Avars......unless, of course, someone can prove that either they were Iranic-speaking, or it was simply a name given them by steppe-Iranians. 
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  Quote Rava Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Oct-2004 at 02:33
That's right. We're just talking about the meaning of the names. The Avars is the river subject for separate discussion. Porfyrogeneticus said: "They call themselves Awars." At least 20000 of them were Central Asian Varchionites.  
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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2004 at 18:19
ah, that Abar is similar to German ber...  
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Oct-2004 at 00:36

Here is  facial reconstruction of Scythians. They are very much similar to the looks of turkic people:



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  Quote Scytho-Sarmatian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Oct-2004 at 02:51
The guy on the bottom looks a lot like me.  How about that!
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  Quote Rava Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Oct-2004 at 03:13
The one above has in fact slight eastern look, while the second one remains my father, really I'm not kiding. Here you have how Turks looked like in the middle of 1st Millenium AD.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Oct-2004 at 06:08

I think I've seen that picture before in this forum.  Are they Turks visiting Sogdiana?

 

Well, here is an ancient fresco of Sogdians in  Penjikent town (Tajikistan). Note the slant eyes of eastern iranic people (Sogdians).

http://www.ej.ru/058/life/04/index.html



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  Quote ihsan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Oct-2004 at 14:29
Hmm, Elteber, Turkic peoples didn't have such thick beards, that is a typical Iranic thing
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Oct-2004 at 20:06

Originally posted by ihsan

Hmm, Elteber, Turkic peoples didn't have such thick beards, that is a typical Iranic thing

Well, then I guess the first Scythian guy is Persian, the second one is Turkic since he doesn't have beard.

Seriously, those two Scythian guys look like modern Kypchaks and Karluks.
The first guy looks like Uzbek or Kazakh. The second one is a typical Tatar.



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  Quote Rava Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Oct-2004 at 02:13
Don't forget where the reconstruction was carried out. It's looks like a compromise...
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Oct-2004 at 07:57

Originally posted by Rava

Don't forget where the reconstruction was carried out. It's looks like a compromise...
 
 I would fully share your doubts and concerns if the reconstruction would have been carried out in Turkey. Given that Russia would often portray turkic people as savage and inferior, it's hard to believe that they would compromise in favor of turkic people. If there was a compromise, then it was in favor of  "indo-europeans". 

 



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  Quote ihsan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Oct-2004 at 10:48

They are surely Russian made I guess. They also re-constructed Timur's head.

Btw, Iranic doesn't automaticially mean Persian. Persians were just one of the many Iranic peoples.



Edited by ihsan
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