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Origin of swastika
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vulkan02 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1835 		  Quote vulkan02 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Origin of swastika
    Posted: 17-Sep-2005 at 18:51
I have always been interested to know where the swastika originated from. I know its an ancient Indo-European symbol for good luck and fortune. It seems that the Samnites used it a lot in their armors too. Any knows more about this?

Here's a screenshot i took off my Roman army and the swastikas clearly show in their shields.
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Posts: 8792 		  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2005 at 19:05
In Iranian culture it is the arms of Mithra (which could explain its appearance in among Romans).  Its origins are obscure, but I believe the oldest svastika relics are found in the Iranian/Armenian plateau.

Edited by Zagros
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Posts: 2329 		  Quote Yiannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2005 at 05:50

Swastika was a common design in Greece as well, it was a sign of good luck.

painting the painter Andokides, ca. 525 BCE. In Greek it was called "tetraskelion" (four legs)
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Posts: 2810 		  Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2005 at 06:32
The swastika is the most spread symbol, used virtually by everyone. It's origin will never be known. Don't quote me, but I believe the oldest one is in India.



The swastika was very popular in Scandinavia, put on runestones and carved on doors for protection and good luck, and iirc that's the reason Hitler stole it for his purposes, being a nut about ancient Scandinavia.

Up till the Nazis, the swastika was still used as a good symbol. For example, the large Swedish electronics company ASEA (now Swedo-Swiss ABB), which among other things introduced the three-phase system used a swastika until 1933, when they changed it due to the Nazis.





Edited by Styrbiorn
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2005 at 07:55
I'm sure it it's not exlcusively indo-European:

Basque Lauburu


old flag of Finland (in the upper left corner)


Japan


Native American

In many cultures the swastika symbolized the sun.
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Posts: 6240 		  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2005 at 08:01
The most ancient Swastikas have been discovered in Susa.
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Posts: 2810 		  Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2005 at 08:18
Originally posted by Mixcoatl


old flag of Finland (in the upper left corner)


Actually, that's the current presidential standard. The cross in the canton is the Grand Master Cross of the Order of the Cross of Freedom. I believe they got the swastika from the Swedish count who donated the first planes to the Finns, creating their airforce. He used a swastika as his coat of arms. Dunno if the Finns used it earlier.

Native Americans used it as well, so it's truelly a global symbol. edit: doh, I should've read the rest of your post.

Edited by Styrbiorn
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Posts: 204 		  Quote Kuu-ukko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2005 at 14:10
I'm sorry, but I've had negative responses when I might ask questions, saying "use your initiative" etc., yet no-one has mentioned Wikipedia (dunno why): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika

Yes the swastika was used in pre-Christian Finland, by the name of mursunsydn, meaning "heart of a walrus"(dunno why on this on either ). It was a symbol of the fertility aspect of Ukko, the main god in the Finnish pantheon. It was adopted from the Germanic Fylfot (along with the god Ukko).
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Posts: 1803 		  Quote cattus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2005 at 14:32
vulkan, is that your screenshot.. you use green highlighters?

This is a interesting picture of a card I found along time ago, it is from a deck produced in the US in 1907 before the Nazis corrupted this symbol.

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Posts: 8792 		  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2005 at 14:38
green highlighters are the default aren't they? mine are green.
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Posts: 1803 		  Quote cattus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2005 at 15:04
Yes, but I think they are ugly and units already highlight when clicked. Change 'DISABLE_ARROW_MARKERS' in your preferences to "TRUE" if you dont like them.
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Posts: 6565 		  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2005 at 16:15

I think that among the oldest lauburus (svastikas for its Indian name), are in Samarra pottery of Neolithic/Calcolithic Iraq and, much earlier, in Paleolithic Ukraine.

I personally think that, like the cross (earliest found in Tell Halaf) it symbolizes the 4 corners of the universe, the four stations, the four elements... but in the cross is represented in a static form, while in the lauburu it is in the dynamic form: the universe in action.


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Posts: 2810 		  Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2005 at 16:30
I do believe it's originally a sun symbol.
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Posts: 6003 		  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2005 at 18:00
Hmm wasn't the sun symbol the cross in a circle?
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Posts: 1835 		  Quote vulkan02 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2005 at 21:12
Originally posted by cattus

vulkan, is that your screenshot.. you use green highlighters?

This is a interesting picture of a card I found along time ago, it is from a deck produced in the US in 1907 before the Nazis corrupted this symbol.



hmm yeah its a screenshot from Rome:TW the green shows up because i clicked on the unit of soldiers thats why. Thanks for the info though.
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Posts: 1283 		  Quote Phallanx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Sep-2005 at 02:59
Well the Swastika was used in the 'Vinca script' dated 6th-4th millenium :





Here's a pic of the guardrail at the Academy in Athens which was built in the  1880's..
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Posts: 1803 		  Quote cattus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Sep-2005 at 03:24
Ah good one, im sure Ive seen these before. The Academy near Kolonaki?
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Posts: 2329 		  Quote Yiannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Sep-2005 at 03:47
Yup!
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Posts: 1283 		  Quote Phallanx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Sep-2005 at 04:42
A similar guardrail is used at the old Ministry of Culture..

I noticed that some are made as if they turn clock-wise, like the one in the 'Vinca script and the  Native American pic, Finland flag and others as if they turn counter clock-wise as in Yiannis' ancient Hellinic painting, the guardrail..etc.
What's the story with that??
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Posts: 6003 		  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Sep-2005 at 10:48
Alot of the European ones turn clockwise, because they are based on the Gamadian cross (made from 4 Greek gammas).
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