Mediterranean Muslims: Bosniaks

Yes Cryptic, there is a pointed arch, which is also common in Persia! Yes there also appears to be a circular possibly stained glass window!

But, the rest of the structure, as far as I can see in the photo presented is a plain stone structure that appears to be in the shape of only a rectangle? Perhaps there exists other views of this structure which would enable me to make further comments?

Also,if you notice, the exterior of the stone work of the "bell tower?" or "Minaret" seems to have been somewhat disfigured or some attempt was made to erase some of the stone facings! It is obvious that the tower looked somewhat different at one time, and even the lower engravings seem to be somewhat fresh as opposed to the rest of the facing structure?

It is most easy to suggest that this was merely an unfinished "bell tower", later turned into a minaret, but it most difficult to prove such!

Perhaps it would be easier for all of us if the photo on page one was transferred to this page for remarks? I just do not have the computer ability to do so!

Regards,



Edited by opuslola - 31-Oct-2010 at 17:33

Taken from the opener of this thread;

"Bosniaks were, for centuries, among the Ottoman Empires most dedicated supporters. They were the only Muslims in the whole of the Ottoman Empire to insist their sons be taken and trained for the Sultan's armies as well."

Well, you, whom ever and where ever you are today, must be referring to the Varangian Guard, which was a group that did not ever recruit Moslem children unless it was done via fraud!

And, as a matter of fact, since the first so called Bosnian Chruch/Mosque shows directly that a mineret was part of the original design, then you must consider whether or not such a structure was originally designed there? Maybe the "prophet", actually began his work in the same area?

It seems that there exists some suggestion that the Ottomans, at least, were first prevalent to the North of Byzantium/Constantinople since the attack came not from the South, or East but from the North and West!

So let we continue....

 After this unfortunate intervention from Pope and with accepting of Catholicism, part of Bosnians decides instead of Catholicism to pass to Orthodox religious belief. Yet they still were Bosnians just catholics or orthodox.

By the end of 10'th century Bosnia is under the rule of Byzantium Empire,whose influence in that moment beginns to rapidly fall.
At year 1025. after the death of Byzantium emperor Vasil II, starts the definitive fall of Byzant's domination on Balkan peninsula.


Bosnia at year 1100.

In the same time with feeling of Byzantium fall Ungarian Kingdom started several millitary campaings against dying Byzant.
At those times Bosnian king fights on Ungarian side because he believed that if he helps to Ungarians they will leave his country alone.
From those times there is a testimony of Byzant chronicle writer Kinamos who in describing of Bosnian king says "When he was near river Sava he turned his forces to river they call Drina,river that divides land of Bosnia from the Serbian land of Ra�ka.And Bosnia IS NOT under the rule of great Despot of Serbs,but IT'S FREE and FOR IT'S OWN,with the people with OWN language and with the people WITH OWN KING and WAY OF LIFE...."(Jo.Connamis,Historiarum epitome.lib III 7,A.Meineke,Bonnae,1836).


Bosnia at year 1200.

Somwhere in between 1241-42, started great Tatar invasion on Ungaria.That situation is used by Croats who want's to widhdraw themselves from Ungarian state. They started a war against Ungarian king  Bela IV. In that effort Croats had help from Bosnian Ban Ninoslav at year of 1243. That fact opened confrotation between Bosnia and Ungaria, confrotation that Bosnia lost.
On Bosnian throne comes Ban Prijezda and puts himself under total rule of Ungaria. Yet he is not controling all Bosnian teritory. At that moment Bosnia is under dual rule between Ban Prijezda and Ban Stjepan Kotromanić (founder of Kotromanić royal family).

At year 1322, Ban Stjepan II Kotromanić permanently annihilate duality and he became one and only Bosnian king.
As very smart man he starts one of greatest developments in Bosnian history. Roads are builted, first hospitals, army is well trained, economy is rising. On intervention of Pope he allowed to Franciscan order to built monasteries, schools. Number of monasteries has grown so rapidly that they formed first vicaracy in Bosnia, fourth in Europe and they called it BOSNA SREBRNA (Bosnia of Silver), which in later Bosnian history had significant role.
At year 1353 Stjepan dies and to his dauphin, Tvrtko I, leaves well constituted state.
In the moment when he accepted Bosnian throne Tvrtko had only 15 years, and in the beginning he had a lot of problems with some parts of Bosnian noble families.
Cause they believed he was to young, Ungaria and later Serbia started war against Tvrtko but were defeated without many Bosnian victims.
In next 40 years Bosnia became strongiest state on Balkans.

Bosnia at year 1400.

And then......then devil himself came to take his toll on Bosnia.
Exhausted with internal and fights with Ungarians Bosnia became weak state to things that are about to come. And that was Osmanlic invasion on Balkan peninsula.

to be continued....




Edited by malizlato

edited by request, sorry for disturbing


Edited by erci

Well,let's start from the beginning.
Log time ago happened something known as Great movement of people, to people from these parts known as Velika seoba naroda, and Slavs as big European ethnic group took part in it as well. So once big group, homogen group, divided itself in 3 major groups.
Eastern Slavs:Russians,Belarussians and Ukrainians.
Western Slavs:  Polish,Czechs,Slovaks and Primorski & Luzichki Serbi.
Southern Slavs:  Slovenians,Croats,Serbs,Montenegroans,Macedonians and Bulgarians.

Southern Slavs as a group decided to go south from great Russian planes and so they have arrived to these places. All tribes took places where they are now (mainly). When they came to these territories they found people already living here, old Roman tribes of Ilirs.

Some members of  Slavic tribes decided to live in region that native people called Bosniae (name given from same named river).

As time passed natives alredy have melted with newcomers.

Soon enough first state was formed

(Bosnian land prior to year 1000.)

Naturally, because they belong to same ethnic group, Bosnians (not Bosniaks) started traffic and merchantry with neighbourhood.

As they found,upon their arrival, literated people, Bosnians soon started to use Roman letters and writting.

First patron or Bosnian leader was Ban Boric (1154-1167).

However he was under rule of Byzantium emperor Constantin Porfirogenet, emperor who in his book �De administrando imperio� describes lands that he owns. For the first time he anounces country called �Horion Bosona/Bosniae�, and that is considered as first foreign document of Bosnian existence. He also declares Bosnia by country of a brave warriors.

Together with literacy Bosnians have accepted a brand new religion of those times, Christianity.

Without  well developed own language and writing, people were in one way forced to serve the masses and all other religic ceremonials in Latin language and writing.

Soon enough (Bosnians are not stupid ), educated people, scolars started to develope own language and writing and that was beginning of Bosnian writing called Bosancica.

In the beginning Bosnian religious life was under patronate of Pope of Rome, but soon enough people started to serve masses in their native(Slavic) language.After that they have made kind of separation from Rome and fresh formed Catholic church. They called themselves Bogumils.

It's important to say that first well-known king, Ban Kulin (1180-1204) was also bogumil.

Naturally that was not wellcomed by Pope so he ordered war against bogumils and he forced Ban Kulin to reject bogumilism in favor of catholicism. As Kulin's army was not able to win the war Ban accepted terms of Pope.

.
Altar in Bogumils church ( Cerkva Bosanskih Krstjana)

To be continued.....

Edited by malizlato

Wow... thats sizzling... Do you look like that too Mila, are these two your friends or something??... if yes we can meet im not going to hit on you that much just hook me up with one of them .

Whether or not Albanians are the descendants of Illyrians is still questioned, though mainly by Eastern Orthodox experts and historians, with whom there is some historical/political bias.

Replace "Orthodox" with just Serbs. Thats for the reason of Kosovo however. I havnt met many others who support this. I havnt met any follower of the Orthodox faith in Albania who believed this. Your generilization is rather creepy. You definitely hint off at something, something offensive, since half my family is of Orthodox heritage and Albanian....

Likewise, it is mainly Catholic and Muslim experts and historians that point blank accept that Albanians are the descendants of Illyrians. In fact, Croatia commissioned the most widely respected historical, linguistic, genetic study that "proves" this.

Catholics and muslims have nothing to do with it. Alexander Stipcevic, was a scientist of Croat origin. No way does he constitute what "Catholics" say. And I dunno What muslims have to say nor what business they have in it. This is not the discussion of muslims, catholics and orthodox. But the discussion of linguisists, ethnologists, historians etc., people involved in the real world.

Edited by Iskender Bey ALBO

I thought Bosninas are also southern slavs and Albanians are the descendants of the Illyirans.

i have a bosnian friends who's family escaped from serbs in �anakkale, they were always talking about themes like those shots above, but id never dreamed what a look like about scenes
im fascinated now

 
  

Strategos: Republika Srpska is controlled by Bosnian Serbs, with very close ties to Serbia. It is the half of the country where all Muslims and Catholics were killed or driven away during the war.

DRAKON: No. In fact, it's only since the 1900s that Bosnian Catholics have called themselves Croats, and since the 1750s that Bosnian Orthodox Christians have called themselves Serbs. Before that, they were simply Bosnian.

Even today, Bosnian Croats and Bosnian Serbs speak Bosnian, as opposed to proper Croatian or Serbian. All the regional/religious differences that Muslims have, they have as well.