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Uygur, Sar� Uygur and Salar

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Feramez View Drop Down
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  Quote Feramez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Uygur, Sar� Uygur and Salar
    Posted: 16-Sep-2005 at 19:13

How is the relations between these three?  I'm sure it's not a bad relation but is there any at all?  Do Salar and Sar Uygur still consider them selves Turk?  I know the eastern tribes of Sar Uygur have more Mongol influence than Turk, including in their language.

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AydoluAtsiz View Drop Down
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  Quote AydoluAtsiz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Sep-2005 at 20:36
i am no expert but as far as i know the uygur dont care much for the salar. i think they dont allow an uygur to be married to a salar. i will try to find you the sources although its been about two years since i read them and i dont know how reliable they are, so dont take it as concrete fact.

Edited by AydoluAtsiz
Trk duygusu her Trkye en tatl kmzdr;
Trk lks candan da aziz bayramzdr...
Darbeyle gnllerde yatan lk silinmez!
Atsz yere dmekle bu bayrak yere inmez!...
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  Quote Feramez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Sep-2005 at 11:12

Thanks, I'll be waiting.

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  Quote AydoluAtsiz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Sep-2005 at 18:17

ok i found one thing but its not the same thing i was looking at a couple of years ago its basically a site that lists the ethnicities in china. i was wrong about the uygur and salar relationship though. uygurs dont like the ainu (not to be confused with ainu of japan) according to the link below.

but you most likely would have already come across this link.

http://nacrp.cic.sfu.ca/nacrp/articles/minority.html

i came across some links, but didnt have time to look at all of them. there arent alot either. but they seem to be the same type of info. i went on google and typed in "relations between uighur salar and sarig uighur" i had some links before but i cant find them for now, i will keep looking though.

according to some of my chinese coworkers who personally knew some salar, they do consider themselves turks. but i can not back up this claim since i personally never met a salar so far.

i will keep looking to find those links, hopefully some other forumers also have information on the topic and can help you out. im also gonna dig into my dads books, i might find some useful info there too.



Edited by AydoluAtsiz
Trk duygusu her Trkye en tatl kmzdr;
Trk lks candan da aziz bayramzdr...
Darbeyle gnllerde yatan lk silinmez!
Atsz yere dmekle bu bayrak yere inmez!...
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  Quote barbar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Sep-2005 at 03:30

Timely correction AydoluAtsiz. Ainu is a small group in southern Xinjiang who are also called Abdal.  Uyghurs despise them because of their way of life. BTW, Ainu in Uyghur means Cheater, Lier, Cunning etc.

I know some Salar guys. They said their ancesters came from Samarqant. And they speak  Salar Turkic (Oghuz dialect) which is quite understandable when spoken slowly. They have few contact with Uyghurs due to Geographical reasons. As for the Salars in Ghulja, Uyghurs got along well with them (they are very few in number), as they did with other Turkic peoples, but Uyghurs don't think they are closely related with Salars, as Salars claim they are related with oghuzs in Uzbekistan. 

Sariughur (Seriq Uyghur, Yugur, or Yugu) is a branch of Uyghurs. They are the remnants of the Kangsu Kingdom built in northern China after the Uyghur Empire. They are the only Uyghurs who kept their national identity throughout the history. However they are quite Mongolized, especially the eastern part. Still, they preserved many Turkic traditions.  Uyghurs think they are part of Uyghurs. There's interesting research done by two Chinese scholars to show that the folk musics of Yugurs are very similar to that of the Hungrians. You can guess what does that mean.

 

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  Quote AydoluAtsiz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Sep-2005 at 03:48

"There's interesting research done by two Chinese scholars to show that the folk musics of Yugurs are very similar to that of the Hungrians."

interesting indeed. barbar, do you have the names of the two chinese people that did the research or have anything on the research itself? i would really like to take a look at it.

of course having both peoples folk music to listen to would be the best but probably a little more difficult to obtain.

Trk duygusu her Trkye en tatl kmzdr;
Trk lks candan da aziz bayramzdr...
Darbeyle gnllerde yatan lk silinmez!
Atsz yere dmekle bu bayrak yere inmez!...
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  Quote barbar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Sep-2005 at 04:35

I read that in a book several years ago, and I completely forgot their names. I checked the web and found one of them, Du Yaxiong. Here is the quote:

"Several years ago, when I was deeply involved in my research work on the folk songs of the Yugur minority, which lives in the Hexi corridor, I found out that the folk songs of this minority which speaks a Turkic language, has a lot in common with Hungarian folk songs. Such features as; pentatonic scale,@foot(A scale having five tones to the octave, rather than eight) the fifth structure, the long fore and short rear rhythm style, the cadence that uses lower fourth and fifth disjunct motion entering the tonic or that uses the lower conjunct motion based on the pentatonic scale that enters from the above minor third or major second, a period composed of two sentences and the lower melodic progression, etc. The characteristics of the music of the two nationalities is nearly the same."

Here is the link:

www2.4dcomm.com/sarvari/music.htm

 

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Sep-2005 at 05:35

Amasing!

I even don't know about the Aynu. I have heard about the Abdals, but I comsidered them as a local group of uyghurs who don't like working, as everybody thinks. I have never heard about they speak different language inside their home, and Uyghur outside....

About Salars, I have talked to a Salar guy who is from Qinghai, but we spoke in Chinese. I guess they have somehow Chinese looking.

I have read about the Yugurs from a material, and it's said that they are losing their own identity and culture recently, esp. after the Communist occupation. It's not uncommen to marry with Chinese, and their language is now in crisis. They are losing their culture and their language due to the strong cultural influence from the Chinses.

I don't think the Salars, not Sari Uygurs have contact with Uyghurs nowadays. Maybe scholars need extra work on this field.

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  Quote AydoluAtsiz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Sep-2005 at 09:09

thanks alot for the link

the article was very interesting and enlightening. i am gonna try and find hungarian folk songs so that i might be able to hear the similarities. thanks again for the info.

feramez i am still looking for what you asked. i do have a busy work schedule but i am gonna have some time off very soon and i'll go digging into what sources i have as promised. hopefully i can dig up something useful to you.

Trk duygusu her Trkye en tatl kmzdr;
Trk lks candan da aziz bayramzdr...
Darbeyle gnllerde yatan lk silinmez!
Atsz yere dmekle bu bayrak yere inmez!...
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  Quote DayI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Sep-2005 at 10:28
Originally posted by YELKEN

Amasing!

I even don't know about the Aynu. I have heard about the Abdals, but I comsidered them as a local group of uyghurs who don't like working, as everybody thinks. I have never heard about they speak different language inside their home, and Uyghur outside....

the bolded text is exactly what we say about abdals here, "calismaya gtleri yok".

They do look like gipsy's here, but some of them are looking quite Turkic.

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