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ramin
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Topic: Evil Empire?! Posted: 15-Sep-2005 at 01:49 |
You might have heard that the British Museum is presenting an
exhibition about the ancient persian empire. The exhibition is called:
"The forgotten empire". Here's the link for more information: http://www.thebritishmuseum.ac.uk
Today
I came up to this strange article from the Guardian, regarding this
exhibition, with this title:"The Evil Empire". This is how this article
begins:
"The title of this exhibition is a bit misleading.
Forgotten Empire, the British Museum calls its spectacular resurrection
of ancient Persia. Yet the Persians are as notorious in their way as
Darth Vader, the Sheriff of Nottingham, General Custer, or any other
embodiment of evil empire you care to mention. They are history's
original villains."
( http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/critic/review/0,,1565267,00.h tml)
Well,
I'd never read or heard such an approach to our history. Every thing I
believe in is represented up side down in this article, and I should
confess, it's very heart-breaking.
Edited by ramin
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"I won't laugh if a philosophy halves the moon"
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Yiannis
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Posted: 15-Sep-2005 at 04:08 |
Originally posted by ramin
Well, I'd never read or heard such an approach to our history. |
Ramin, I must admit that I've encountered this kind of approach many-many times. It's the standard approach of the "Westrern civilization lovers". One the other hand one must admit, that since only the Greeks have left records of the Persian empire, this is understandable. We see it, even today, through the Greek historians' eyes.
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The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics
Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
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tadamson
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Posted: 15-Sep-2005 at 10:47 |
The article refers to the views of the Greek historians. They
were very anti Persian (because of the Persian attempts to conquer
Greece). This led to Greek assaults on Asia Minor (primaraly by
the Spartans) then the great Macedonian 'crusade' against Persia (true
Greeks thought that the Macedonians were barbarians as well, so Phillip
and Alexander could hate the Persians and at the same time become
acepted as 'Greek').
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rgds.
Tom..
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ramin
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Posted: 15-Sep-2005 at 23:56 |
That's true, there have always been talks leading to false knowledge
about Iran and Iranian history, but what I meant in my opening was that
it's the first time I've seen such thing in an actual newspaper
regarding not only the country, but the "history" of Iran. Although I
too think of Iran's nowadays behaviors as "evil" in some senses, but I
believe rating an (ancient) culture, Persian or any other, "evil" is
utterly absurd.
Unfortunately, this journalist is directly and willingly insulting not
only a country and its "being" but also the existence and continuation
of this culture and the people believing in it;
"The
title of this exhibition is a bit misleading. Forgotten Empire, the
British Museum calls its spectacular resurrection of ancient Persia.
Yet the Persians are as notorious in
their way as Darth Vader, the Sheriff of Nottingham, General Custer, or
any other embodiment of evil empire you care to mention. They are
history's original villains."
Disappointedly, I have to say we see such articles
and words not only attacking a certain cultrue and nation, but many
countries are being violated by (sorrowfully) "unaware" Western medias.
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"I won't laugh if a philosophy halves the moon"
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Aydin
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Posted: 16-Sep-2005 at 00:01 |
Ironically, the Anglos are an Irani tribe/clan. So this proves the English are so stupid that they would put themself down.
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HulaguHan
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Posted: 16-Sep-2005 at 00:06 |
No they are not. All Greeks, Latins, Germanics, Iranics speak languages from the Indo-European languages. an English and a Persian is like a Finnish and a Tunghus.
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tadamson
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Posted: 16-Sep-2005 at 06:03 |
Originally posted by ramin
That's true, there have always been talks leading to false knowledge
about Iran and Iranian history, but what I meant in my opening was that
it's the first time I've seen such thing in an actual newspaper
regarding not only the country, but the "history" of Iran. Although I
too think of Iran's nowadays behaviors as "evil" in some senses, but I
believe rating an (ancient) culture, Persian or any other, "evil" is
utterly absurd.
Unfortunately, this journalist is directly and willingly insulting not
only a country and its "being" but also the existence and continuation
of this culture and the people believing in it;
"The
title of this exhibition is a bit misleading. Forgotten Empire, the
British Museum calls its spectacular resurrection of ancient Persia.
Yet the Persians are as notorious in
their way as Darth Vader, the Sheriff of Nottingham, General Custer, or
any other embodiment of evil empire you care to mention. They are
history's original villains."
Disappointedly, I have to say we see such articles
and words not only attacking a certain cultrue and nation, but many
countries are being violated by (sorrowfully) "unaware" Western medias.
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But the article isn't putting down Iran/Presia ??????????????
It points out that the classical view of Persia (from Greek history
being core to European education for hundreds of years) is wrong.....
You are moaning about something that isn't being said
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rgds.
Tom..
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Iranian
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Posted: 20-Sep-2005 at 21:44 |
"The Persian empire followed, and conquered, the Assyrians and neo-Babylonians-and was about two millennia after Ur. All these cultures were greater than Persia's, as a quick tour of the British Museum will indicate. "
I think what the writer said above is also insulting. Iranians
conquered more territories than any other culture of that time. They
treated the occupied peoples with respect and tolerance, in contrast to
the Assyrians who plundered, tortured and massacred. In addition, the
Persian empire was brilliantly organized to manage such a large empire
and it worked for about 230 years. Certainly, Persians were not
"barbarians" as the Greeks claimed. In fact, in some respects, Persians
were far ahead of the Greek civilization, such as in religion, morals,
military tactics, political administration, wealth and infrastructure.
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Iranban
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Posted: 21-Sep-2005 at 04:09 |
A Great article:
So much for Mr. Jones Where does such deep antagonism toward the Persian Empire originate from?
September 16, 2005 iranian.com
Enjoying a peaceful last quarter of my life, it now takes a lot to make me angry. Having graduated from London University and familiar with the crafty ways of a few Brits, I should have known that if anyone could make my blood boil, it would be one of them!
I am referring to a shameless article by Jonathan Jones in The Guardian, The Evil Empire, dated September 8. Considering that half the world refers to the Brits that way, I wanted to know who had dared to insult a power that, despite its small country, continues to manipulate the world. Alas! I found the article to be not about the British Empire; rather it is Mr. Jones pitiful criticism of a new exhibit at the British Museum on Persian Empire enhanced by pieces of what remains of Persepolis.
And contrary to Mr. Jones attempts to pin this on current politics, the exhibit had been planned years ago and has little to do with the relationship between the two countries or any changes thereof. He refers to Persepolis as nothing but archaeology, and considers Persian art devoid of emotions. In short, he makes every contemptible effort to reduce the great names of Persian Empire to a bunch of pathetic gold diggers.
Where does such a deep antagonism originate from? For after reading Mr. Jones article, theres no doubt in my mind he has a personal history, A bone to pick with Persians -- to paraphrase one of their own terms. He begins his slander by placing the Persian emperors alongside Darth Vader, the Sheriff of Nottingham, General Custer, or any other evil empire.
Not a clever move, Mr. Jones! I expected more diplomacy from a Brit. After all, I grew up with a grandmother who used to quote, The Brits are so gentle at cutting your head off, you dont feel it, until you sneeze and the thing falls off! Not only does Mr. Jones article lack such skills, it is as if the author is relying too much on the expression, The pen is mightier than the sword!
Lucky for Persians, the world has not been waiting for any Smith or Jones to define history. Mr. Jones attempts to support his futile remarks with an artists imagination -- a mosaic found in Pompeii, portraying the great Persian king as a frightened rabbit, and concludes, So much for Persia!
He further tries to paint a grand picture of Alexander, as if to make him bigger than the Persians. History shows how the young Macedonian warrior bowed before Persian civilization, even wished to be like them, thus learning to speak the language and taking an Iranian wife. While half the world tries to belittle the Iranians, scholars around the world continue to educate us about the grandeur of ancient Persia and what remains the cradle of civilization.
Jones is not only angry at Persians, it sounds as if he doesnt like the British Museum, either. Reading his article, I had a feeling he might find inner peace through sessions of counseling, indeed anger management. Is it not the same anger that has robbed the world peace? Unless one reads between the lines, similar articles, misleading words and men like Jones will do their best to divide, hoping to conquer.
At the conclusion of his article, he sounds appalled by all the glitter and gold in this exhibit. Has he ever viewed the British Crown Jewels? It is no secret that gold was the metal of choice to the ancient kings. What you see here, Mr. Jones, are only fragments of what used to be. The rest was confiscated by those who came to our country dressed in friendly clothes and it is all now the property of Western museums. Id advise a trip around the world and a visit to other major museums to view some of them. However, considering your taste, Im not sure that would be beneficial to your health.
I do like one phrase at the end of Jonathan Jones article and wish to borrow it in closing. Reporters come and reporters go, but when it comes to the last word, History wins.
* British Museum: Forgotten Empire: The World of Ancient Persia * Video: Channel 4 report
About Zohreh Khazai Ghahremani is a retired dentist and a freelance writer. She lives in San Diego, California. Her latest book is "Sharik-e Gham" (see excerpt). Visit her site ZoesWordGarden.com
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Degredado
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Posted: 21-Sep-2005 at 18:31 |
Originally posted by Iranian
Certainly, Persians were not "barbarians" as the Greeks claimed. |
Actually they were. They didn't speak Greek, and they were foreigners.
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Constantine XI
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Posted: 21-Sep-2005 at 18:37 |
It is unfair to refer to Persia like that, and I would hope they took particular note of the fact that the Persian Empire was multi-ethnic. Just another journalist simplifying the course of history into a "good vs evil" struggle to make it easier to digest for your burger-chomping, reality-tv showing watching, untravelled-because-the-outside-world-is-scary-and-evil Joe Blow off the street who has difficulty conceptualizing any story in a fashion different from a Star Wars or Cowboy movie.
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Plutarch
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Posted: 21-Sep-2005 at 19:00 |
Yiannis is right in that Mr. Jones is asserting the Western view. It seems the Iranians have overreacted to this well-written article.
Did Darius not look like a frightened rabbit?
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There is nothing more unequal than the equal treatment of unequal people. --Thomas Jefferson
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Zagros
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Posted: 21-Sep-2005 at 19:58 |
The author uses Sassanid reliefs in reference to the Hakhamanesh, a testament to his inept and outdated interpretation of history.
I do like one phrase at the end of Jonathan Jones article and wish to borrow it in closing. Reporters come and reporters go, but when it comes to the last word, History wins. |
Mhm.
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Zagros
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Posted: 21-Sep-2005 at 20:01 |
Outdated? Sorry I meant ridiculous; who uses "Darth Vader" in a historical analogy?
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Iranian
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Posted: 21-Sep-2005 at 20:26 |
Originally posted by Degredado
Actually they were. They didn't speak Greek, and they were foreigners. |
True, but I meant in the sense that they were not uncivilized.
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Zagros
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Posted: 21-Sep-2005 at 20:29 |
We had a term for non-Iranians too, it was Anairyan. I don't think the term barbarian necessarily meant uncivilised.
Edited by Zagros
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farohar
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Posted: 26-Sep-2005 at 02:06 |
I don't think the article is that bad, but after reading it, I had no idea what his point was, the start and end of his article had close to no connection...
It was funny that he "forgot" to mention Zoroastrianism, and said that we didn't have a religion, funny that it kills a Brit to admit that they're own religion just a "clone" of ours
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Humata, Hukta, Huvarashta
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Aryan Khadem
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Posted: 11-Oct-2005 at 21:03 |
Well the writter of the article 'Evil Empire is obviously not a archaeologist nor historian. He is obviously a biggot, there is never one side to history, the corruption in the Persian courts did exist, but to call greek democracy, similar to modern day democracy is laughable and obsurb. If anything Modern Democracy is both a combination of Greek and Persian forms of governments.
Heroditus says alot of things in positive light about the persians but not too positive as to get him in trouble. he is just one man with idiotic ideas. His article had no substance or backing, it was just opinion based, of a journalist with no credability
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Life is beautiful but I am darker then Life.
Iran Aziz Janam Fadayt
ShahanShah
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Aryan Khadem
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Posted: 11-Oct-2005 at 21:09 |
Originally posted by HulaguHan
No they are not. All Greeks, Latins, Germanics, Iranics speak languages from the Indo-European languages. an English and a Persian is like a Finnish and a Tunghus. |
actually Anglo-saxons are a mixture of Anglos and Saxons, Saxons are an Iranian Tribe. European languages stem off an ancient family tree in which Iranian is off to, they call the original Zend.
However if you claim to be Saxon then note yoy claim to have Iranian blood as Scythians like Cimmerians, Sarmatians and Alans are part of the Iranian family tree. There are 80 Iranian tribes, Persians and Medes are just 2 amongst the 80 wich the ones I mentioned earlier are part of. We know this through linguistics and burial mounds etc etc
If you doubt it you have that free will, but back your opposition up next time.
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Life is beautiful but I am darker then Life.
Iran Aziz Janam Fadayt
ShahanShah
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Aryan Khadem
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Posted: 11-Oct-2005 at 21:23 |
But lets look at the whole point of view from a different angle, the fact that he wears pants and sits at a table, just one testement to Persian genius.
Infact a documentary on Perspolis made by National geographic states, 'No civilisation has ever reach to this day the tolerance of other religions and other people as the Ancient Persian Empire'
Iran at the moment is an evi empire, religion is not free there and human rights is appauling. It is no angel but when dealing with Anceint history not romans nor greeks ever tolerated other races, cultures or religions as the Persians did.
Even the greeks hated but to admire the Persians in attributes. For Greek to allow a woman freedom was a totally foriegn concept and seemed that the men must be weak. I admire Greek culture but to disregard another so badly is ignorance.
It was not that well written, this is to the guy who thinks it was.
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Life is beautiful but I am darker then Life.
Iran Aziz Janam Fadayt
ShahanShah
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