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Europe and asia

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  Quote demon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Europe and asia
    Posted: 29-Sep-2004 at 19:38
I agree.  My computer is so bad that I can't read them at all :-S
Grrr..
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2004 at 23:00
you people are too shallow to discuss history and I'm suprised that you actually aren't ashamed of yourselves. Mabe it's because of your hollowness and ignorance.
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  Quote warhead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Sep-2004 at 23:41
Speaking to yourself again jimmy neutron?
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  Quote Degredado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Sep-2004 at 13:58

In spite of the extremism shown by dsjdsj there is something I should say:

Originally posted by demon

If I can remember correctly, it was the Arabs who introduced the idea of democracy to Europe via renaissance.  The idea came from the Greeks/Romans, which were burried due to the fall of Rome.

I'm going to have to disagree here. Modern democracy has more to do with the political system of the Germanic "barbarians" than it does with ancient Rome (which was never a democracy) or Greece, although the Greek system later influenced European thinkers in the eighteenth century. Here's a lineal geneology: Germanic Wittenegemot, Ting, etc. - Magna Carta - English Civil War - Anglo-Saxon institutions are transplanted to America- well, it goes on. And I think the Arabs were only interested in the Greco-Roman oevres that were in tune to Islam, and they were not democratic

 

 

In between there was a dark period where Europeans believe all this Witchcraft superstition (inquisition in which incriminated died one way or another w/o representation!), which I would not call democratic at all  

Also, the medieval way of court was the following.  The prosecutor and defendant both raised their swords for a deathmatch dual.  The winner was considered to have the hand of god thus worthy!  That's not democratic!  

And it's also over simplistic. Stop watching the History channel.

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  Quote Evildoer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Sep-2004 at 18:00

Not simplistic at all. That was exactly what happened. Feudalism was clearly not democratic, church wasn't either, neither was society.

One could easily argue that there are noble elements of Al-Qaeda. So could one argue that Medieval society was highly democratic.



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  Quote Evildoer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Oct-2004 at 15:20

This post is not suppose to be here.



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  Quote Evildoer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Oct-2004 at 15:21

Same with this one



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  Quote demon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Oct-2004 at 12:29

Originally posted by dsjdsj

you people are too shallow to discuss history and I'm suprised that you actually aren't ashamed of yourselves. Mabe it's because of your hollowness and ignorance.

Some deep quotes from dsjdsj:

============================

"go to hell you are an cheap asian jerk"

"And I said that because he called my posts bullsh*t."

"If you can't read then don't bother to ask me things. I already pointed out that you called me racist and what I said bullsh*t. This is the second time people talked about this. If you miss it this time then you got problems."

"And the chinese literacy thing, I'm chinese then why can't I read chinese? "

(I then asked him to translate some simple Chinese phrases and he couldn't)

-------------------

And it's also over simplistic. Stop watching the History channel.
>

Err, I can tell that Europe has some noble elements as the first democratic governemnt (like the german democracy you insist), breakthrough inventions such as caravel, and stuff. 

I just mentioned some cons of Europe. 



Edited by demon
Grrr..
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  Quote Evildoer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Oct-2004 at 14:52
What german democracy? Elector system for voting in Kaisers?
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  Quote Degredado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Oct-2004 at 15:10
The system shown by ancient Germanic tribes which was not democracy, but close to it.
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  Quote Abyssmal Fiend Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Oct-2004 at 18:48

Originally posted by Evildoer

What german democracy? Elector system for voting in Kaisers?

You're coming damn close to Trolling, Evil. Watch it.


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  Quote Evildoer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2004 at 14:40

Stop being paranoid. I just asked a question!

Well, the elector system is far more democratic than a simple hereditery monarchy is it not?

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  Quote Gubook Janggoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Oct-2004 at 18:19
The elector system bothers me...it puts too much power in too few...
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  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Oct-2004 at 12:02
not really, the electors were pretty much anti-imperial...
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  Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Oct-2004 at 12:17


Originally posted by Evildoer

Not simplistic at all. That was exactly what happened. Feudalism was clearly not democratic, church wasn't either, neither was society.


That's even more simplistic. Feudalism was only present in France, Germany and to an extent England, Denmark and Spain.


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  Quote Demetrios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2004 at 18:33

Who rule the world today?

During the 19th century the whole world was controled by western european countries.

Since the "battle of Lepante" in 1571 where the turkish fleet was wiped out:

1- Western europeans never lost a single war against non-european countries.

2-Every asiatic countries(except for Japan) were once part of an european empire. Not any european territory ever was part of an asiatic empire.

It is not euro-centrism, it's an historical fact.

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  Quote Omnipotence Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2004 at 18:55

"Who rule the world today?

During the 19th century the whole world was controled by western european countries.

Since the "battle of Lepante" in 1571 where the turkish fleet was wiped out:

1- Western europeans never lost a single war against non-european countries.

2-Every asiatic countries(except for Japan) were once part of an european empire. Not any european territory ever was part of an asiatic empire.

It is not euro-centrism, it's an historical fact."

 

Times change, one can rule the world today, but another can rule it tommorrow. And the Mongols did take over some European empires before, pretty good when considering the degree of technology, no cars, planes, telephones, ect... and they can still take over a country a million miles away. And did you ever look at the sino-Dutch war or the attack of the Huns or the Muslim invasion of Spain or the ect?... I think not. Besides, Europe took over the world in the late 1800ds. That's at the peak of their power. During the middle ages, they're not, while the rest of the wolrd was at the height of their power. And at that time no one had the technology to take over a country a million miles away. At the hight of European power, they did.




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  Quote Demetrios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2004 at 19:33

"Times change, one can rule the world today, but another can rule it tommorrow. And the Mongols did take over some European empires before, pretty good when considering the degree of technology, no cars, planes, telephones, ect... and they can still take over a country a million miles away. And did you ever look at the sino-Dutch war or the attack of the Huns or the Muslim invasion of Spain or the ect?... I think not." 

 I said since 1571.........I said western europeans

 As for the mongol conquest, it was before 1571 and in eastern europe

 regarding the muslim invasion of spain, it was before 1571, muslim aren't asian people( they are middle east people). Arabs never invaded spain, it was moors( from north africa) invited by a christian faction to participate in the spanish civil war between feudal lords and king Roderic.

 Regarding the Huns invasion: it was before 1571, and they were repelled.

"Besides, Europe took over the world in the late 1800ds. That's at the peak of their power. During the middle ages, they're not, while the rest of the wolrd was at the height of their power. And at that time no one had the technology to take over a country a million miles away. At the hight of European power, they did."

  So what,  I'm not making political speech, i just constat history fact and answer the thread question. If you think europe was inferior to asian during middle age, check europeans and middle east primary sources.

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  Quote Omnipotence Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2004 at 19:44

"I said since 1571.........I said western europeans As for the mongol conquest, it was before 1571 and in eastern europe

 regarding the muslim invasion of spain, it was before 1571, muslim aren't asian people( they are middle east people). Arabs never invaded spain, it was moors( from north africa) invited by a christian faction to participate in the spanish civil war between feudal lords and king Roderic.

 Regarding the Huns invasion: it was before 1571, and they were repelled.

"

You said "in the battle of Lepante in 1571"... Besides, this discussion is mainly based on the middle ages, not things after 1571.

 

    "So what,  I'm not making political speech, i just constat history fact and answer the thread question. If you think europe was inferior to asian during middle age, check europeans and middle east primary sources."

Middle East? what does that have to do with Europe? And in their primary sources they think worry a lot more about Internal affairs rather than the Crusades. And what did Europeans do in the middle ages? What can you say to someone that lost the invention of the horse collar? Of course, they more than made up for this by taking over the world once they did get back on their feet.

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  Quote Imperator Invictus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Nov-2004 at 19:51
Western Europe rapidly lost control of the Americas. After the 1900s, the European colonies almost all collapsed. The US started rising in 1898.
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