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Publius Scipio Africanus
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Topic: Who was the Greatest General? Posted: 03-Sep-2005 at 05:31 |
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This should be interesting to see what people think.
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'I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 96% how I react to it.' Scipio Africanus
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Emperor Barbarossa
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Posted: 04-Sep-2005 at 18:53 |
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I think Genghis Khan, out of the list, was the best one by far. First
off, he had to gain his power, unlike Alexander who inherited it. He
also faced the Chinese, who did not have the best military, but were a
lot better than the Persians, and had a lot more men. Khan even had to
face the Tatars, and slaughtered them easily.
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Constantine XI
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Posted: 04-Sep-2005 at 22:17 |
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Very Euro-centric, but oh well. In terms of strictly speaking as a general, I choose the Khan.
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It is not the challenges a people face which define who they are, but rather the way in which they respond to those challenges.
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Emperor Barbarossa
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Posted: 05-Sep-2005 at 18:38 |
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Yes, Khan did have losses, but almost always was outnumbered in his
battles by competent enemies. Not like the Persians Alexander faced.
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Rome
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Posted: 05-Sep-2005 at 18:51 |
I voted for Caesar because of his military brilliance.
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Emperor Barbarossa
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Posted: 05-Sep-2005 at 19:06 |
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Caesar is definitely up there in the greatest of all generals. I think
he is second on the list. Much like Khan, he was outnumbered at Alesia,
but the Gauls were pretty crappy, but at least they wanted to fight.
The Mongols were a lot fearsome and were different people than the
Romans, but they faced many different types of enemies.
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Constantine XI
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Posted: 06-Sep-2005 at 00:13 |
Originally posted by Rome
I voted for Caesar because of his military brilliance.
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You really love the Romans don't you? It's a good place to begin studying history as it has somethign for everyone. Who do you think would win if it was Caesar vs the Khan?
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It is not the challenges a people face which define who they are, but rather the way in which they respond to those challenges.
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Rome
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Posted: 06-Sep-2005 at 01:51 |
You would have to give me more info on the battlefield and the forces Caesar and the Khan would command.
And yes I love rome, but only rome between 100 B.C.E.-44.B.C.E.
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Publius Scipio Africanus
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Posted: 06-Sep-2005 at 02:24 |
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I would have chosen Alexander, but as a big fan of Rome, I just had to
choose Scipio, He learnt and adapted to the situation, and was one of
the first Roman Generals to actually apply any tactics in battle. He
displayed genius, patriotism, loyalty, adaptbility (If there is such a
word.) and courage, all these qualities makes Scipio, to me, the most
outstanding and brilliant general in history.
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'I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 96% how I react to it.' Scipio Africanus
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Emperor Barbarossa
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Posted: 06-Sep-2005 at 19:25 |
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Khan lost his first battle and adapted to win his second one and take
over the clan. Khan displayed all of those qualities and did much
better things than Scipio did.
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Constantine XI
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Posted: 06-Sep-2005 at 21:34 |
Originally posted by Rome
And yes I love rome, but only rome between 100 B.C.E.-44.B.C.E.
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So Caesar, Pompey, Sulla and Marius are effectively your interests I am guessing. All interesting characters, men who built on the success of the man who came before and then challenged them.
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It is not the challenges a people face which define who they are, but rather the way in which they respond to those challenges.
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Belisarius
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Posted: 06-Sep-2005 at 23:00 |
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From this list, I would have to choose Julius Ceasar. To me, he
embodies everything a Roman is: strength, intelligence, cunning,
ambition, and arrogance. To his credit, he refused to study the
techniques of his enemies and their generals because he refused to
believe that there was anyone with superior generalship.
Personally, I find that the most interesting period of classical Roman
history was c260 CE. This was the time when Rome was beset by many
strong enemies from the outside and withing, but still strong enough to
defeat them all.
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"It is easier to talk than to hold one's tongue."
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Publius Scipio Africanus
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Posted: 07-Sep-2005 at 01:03 |
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Well, as I said, thats just me, and one of the qualities that not many
generals on the list have are loyalty. Most generals are ambitious to
make their own name great, they only think about themsleves. However it
is in my opinion Scipio only did what was neccessary in his battles and
campaigns, while Julius Caesar, Genghis Khan etc were all conquering
territory for personal Glory. Scipio may have taken Spain, but it had
to be done in order to stop reinforcements or supply Hannibal in Italy.
Scipio invaded North Africa, but again, it was to draw Hannibal away
from Italy
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'I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 96% how I react to it.' Scipio Africanus
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Constantine XI
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Posted: 07-Sep-2005 at 17:46 |
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I don't view Scipio as being a death-blow to the Republic like Caesar, but he did engage in some dubious practices which the Repbulic lost out on because of. A good example of this is promoting his brother as leader of the Eastern campaign which Africanus was actually responsible for. When they attempted to prosecute his brother (who had received the name Asiaticus for the Eastern campaign) Africanus simply made a powerful speech to the plebs and they all went off making a bid din and leaving the impotent Senatorial prosecutors standing in their wake. Still though, his contributions to Rome do outweigh how he damaged it.
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It is not the challenges a people face which define who they are, but rather the way in which they respond to those challenges.
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Publius Scipio Africanus
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Posted: 08-Sep-2005 at 03:19 |
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I do not deny that he made mistakes, yes it is true he made his brother
leader, and did at times deliberately disobey the senate, but as you
said, his contributions outweighed how he damaged it.
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'I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 96% how I react to it.' Scipio Africanus
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morticia
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Posted: 08-Sep-2005 at 20:39 |
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I have to go with Genghis Khan - the Mongol conqueror!!
Morty
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Lannes
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Posted: 08-Sep-2005 at 22:13 |
Ah, our monthly "Greatest General" thread. 
I'll vote for Philip II this time around. Completely transformed an insignificant and unsophisticated army into the most powerful force in the western world. And he was an outstanding tactician to boot.
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τρέφεται δέ, ὤ Σώκρατης, ψυχὴ τίνι;
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Heraclius
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Posted: 09-Sep-2005 at 20:13 |
I personally dont rate Alexander very highly at all, but I have a major soft spot for Scipio, he was a military genius, but also a very likeable character in history along with Caeser but for differing reasons.
Overall though, just for the position he was in I have to say Hannibal, in the enemies back yard for about 15 years, smashing one vast army after another, with barely any hope of reinforcements to replenish the troops he brought with him and for a large part of his campaign almost no real support.
Theres a difference in class to a general who can invade a country win a few victories and then leave, but to stay in enemy territory for so long and have that many victories is just as far as im aware unmatched anywhere else by anybody else.
Put Hannibal against Caeser and Caeser maybe could win, but Caeser was never in the kind of position Hannibal was in for aslong as Hannibal was so for the handling of their respective situations Hannibal wins, because I doubt there is anybody who could of kept an army together for that long and kept it to such a high standard for that long.
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A tomb now suffices him for whom the world was not enough.
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Constantine XI
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Posted: 09-Sep-2005 at 20:34 |
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I prefer Hannibal to Caesar and I think he gave more to Rome than Caesar. Hannibal, IMHO, left a massive change in the behaviour of the Roman state. So closely did he bring Rome to its knees that that state would NEVER behave the same way again. It became greedier, more paranoid, more expansionist, more controlling. I would love to do a research paper one day just exploring how Hannibal himself managed to change completely the psyche of the Roman state.
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It is not the challenges a people face which define who they are, but rather the way in which they respond to those challenges.
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Publius Scipio Africanus
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Posted: 09-Sep-2005 at 20:46 |
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An interesting thing is, just on that note of Rome's change because of
Hannibal, is that Rome was sort of an accidental empire, most wars were
defensive, fears of other empires and neighbours invading drove the
Romans to attack before they did.
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'I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 96% how I react to it.' Scipio Africanus
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