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Maju
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Topic: Pre-Islamic Arabia Posted: 28-Aug-2005 at 00:48 |
I've long been wondering how was Arabia (the Arabian peninsula) before
Muhammed's teachings and the Islamic unificaton. Politically,
culturally and religiously it seems that nobody takes much time on it.
Most Wikipedia history articles for instance virtually start in 632 or
even later (with a vague mention on people living there before).
I've found some minimal references though:
- Nabateans: most famous Arabs of the NW.
- Yemen:
that was home to several succesive civilizations (Himrayites in
pre-Islamic time, of Jewish religion and anti-Christian attitudes,
later converted to Islam)
- Oman: that belonged to Persia since 563.
- Bahrain: also Persian, with rather strong Christian Nestorian influence.
- Lakhmis and Ghassanids of the northern edges of the desert
I've also found something on the pagan religion of Arabs, which seems
connected to other Semitic pantheons, most notably the
Canaanite-Phoenician one. See: Arabic mythology and Demons in pre-Islamic Arab culture.
I'm most interested in increasing my knowledge of pre-Islamic Arabia.
How was the pagan Arabic religon structured, how were the tribes and
cities organized, how strong was Jewish, Christian and Mazdeist
influence... all that seems somehow essential in understanding the
context in which Muhammed preached and fought.
Edited by Maju
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azimuth
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Posted: 28-Aug-2005 at 01:24 |
intersting Points
i think Arabs are not like Iranians and other Islamic nations, its clear that we didnt and dont care about our History before Islam as much as we care about our History Before Islam.
about the religions practiced before islam are Judaisim, Christanity and those Pagan religions which almost nothing of them survived .
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Jagatai Khan
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Posted: 28-Aug-2005 at 03:38 |
It isn't worth to care about.
In the period before Islam also named as "Cahiliye" Arabs were killing their own daughters and digging them although they were alive.
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azimuth
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Posted: 28-Aug-2005 at 04:58 |
well not all Arabs did that, plus for 100s of years before Islam Arabs had kingdoms and long history.
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Maju
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Posted: 28-Aug-2005 at 08:34 |
Originally posted by Jagatai Khan
It isn't worth to care about.
In the period before Islam also named as "Cahiliye" Arabs were
killing their own daughters and digging them although they were alive. |
And you don't find that interesting? The historian is interested in
what happened for good or bad... you can't erase a period of history
just because you dislike it. Carthaginian and Phoenicians surely also
comitted infanticide (human sacrifice) but that's no excuse to ignore
them. Chinese and others have comitted infanticide even today and
nobody ignores them because of that.
Besides, what about Judaist proselitism that reched Yemen? Isn't that interesting? Just an example...
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Maju
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Posted: 28-Aug-2005 at 08:55 |
I made up a map of Arabia before Muhammed, correct me if I'm wrong:
The red and green lines mark
the approximate borders of Roman and Persian Empires. The crosses,
David's stars and flames try to indicate where there were strong
Christian, Jewish and Zoroastrian influences.
Edited by Maju
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azimuth
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Posted: 28-Aug-2005 at 09:30 |
i think this is more accurate
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Maju
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Posted: 28-Aug-2005 at 09:37 |
Nah. Northern Vasconia (Gascony) was also independent at that time and
the Frankish Kingdom was torn to pieces by intestine fights (see http://www.roman-emperors.org/big600.htm). But, well, in both maps Arabia is mostly out of limits.
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azimuth
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Posted: 28-Aug-2005 at 10:27 |
yes
but the limits of Persia was to Iraq not the rest of the Gulf's coast.
and there werent a significant kingdoms just before the rise of islam in Arabia
Yemen was part of the Ethiopian Christan Kingdomes
and in the north the Ghassasins were Christan Arabs.
Jews didnt have a Kingdome they were like tribes living in Medina and Makkah and other parts too.
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Cyrus Shahmiri
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Posted: 28-Aug-2005 at 11:12 |
It depends on the date of the map, for a long time Yemen also belonged to the Persian empire.
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Zagros
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Posted: 28-Aug-2005 at 11:40 |
The Sassanid empire did include the Arabian side of the gulf coast.
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azimuth
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Posted: 28-Aug-2005 at 11:52 |
yes but not at the years when Islam rised, i think Persia became weak in the last 20 years before the Arab invation.
so they lost control of the Arabian coast on the gulf sometime in the early years of 600 AD.
from that map 600 AD, it looks like there were a persian semi-independant kingdome called Lakhmid kingdom between Persian Empire and the Arabian Peninsula.
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Maju
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Posted: 28-Aug-2005 at 12:08 |
Originally posted by azimuth
yes
but the limits of Persia was to Iraq not the rest of the Gulf's coast. |
According to what I've found in several hours of Wikipedia browsing
it seemed like Oman and Bahrein (and this latter dependencies in the
Arabian coast) were at that time part of the Persian empire (follow the
links in my first post for references).
This is a map of that Sassanid Empire at its height:
At the time of Muhammad, the Sassanid Empire was in deep crisis and central authority was very weak.
and there werent a significant kingdoms just before the rise of islam in Arabia
Yemen was part of the Ethiopian Christan Kingdomes |
While it seems the Himyarite dynasty of Yemen wasn't as prosperous
as the earlier one of the Sabaeans, they seem the only major state in
all the Arabian peninsula.
From Wikipedia:
Himyar was a state in ancient Yemen dating from 115 BCE. Conquered neighbouring Saba in 25 BCE, Qataban in 50 CE and Hadramaut 100 CE. It was the dominant state in Arabia until the sixth century. The economy was based on the export of frankincense and myrrh. The last Tubba Himyarite king, Dhu Nuwas, converted to Judaism and proceeded to massacre the Christians
in his kingdom, many from neighbouring Ethiopia. This led to invasion
by the Ethiopians, and the domination of the kingdom for 8 years. A
coalition of Yemeni & Persian forces of Dailam later ousted the foreign invaders. The new Himyarite rulers soon converted to Islam.
Himyarite kings included:
The Ethiopian conquest happened apparently in 523 BCE (this is one century before the Hejira).
and in the north the Ghassasins were Christan Arabs. |
That's reflected in my map well.
Jews didnt have a Kingdome they were like tribes living in Medina and Makkah and other parts too. |
Apart of the Himyarite case, the other reference I've found is about
Medina being home of a very large Jewish community at that time. No
references on Mecca (that was another article that started with
Mohammed and the importance of that city to Islam). No references about
Christians in those cities either.
The general impression is that the conflict between Byzantium and
Sassanid Persia affected all the area more or less diffusely. Byzantium
prosecuted Nestorian Christians and the Persians welcomed them... but
neutralized Christian Axumite expansion in Yemen. Very interesting...
Edited by Maju
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azimuth
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Posted: 28-Aug-2005 at 12:17 |
i've seen that map of the Sassanid empire and i think thats wasnt the largest period of the sassanids, in the 500s AD they reached Yemen.
but anyway what period is that map?
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Kuu-ukko
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Posted: 28-Aug-2005 at 12:50 |
Thought this could be of use, although it's not about politics: http://www.omniglot.com/writing/southarabian.htm
Edited by Kuu-ukko
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Maju
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Posted: 28-Aug-2005 at 13:17 |
Originally posted by azimuth
from that map 600 AD, it looks like there were a
persian semi-independant kingdome called Lakhmid kingdom between
Persian Empire and the Arabian Peninsula.
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That's exactly what it seems to have been the function of Lakhmid
and Ghassanid states (both of Arab or Arab-Aramean ethnicity): border
realms (marks), under the
influence of Persia and Byzantium, meant to contain any invasion
through the desert. Actually it seems most of the time they were
fighting each other. At some time the Ghassanids had also problems with
Byzantium because they had Nestorians in high esteem and Byzantium was
prosecuting that sect.
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Cyrus Shahmiri
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Posted: 28-Aug-2005 at 13:24 |
azimuth, it said that the Sassanid empire was even larger than the Achaemenid empire in the early 7th century.
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azimuth
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Posted: 28-Aug-2005 at 13:30 |
in the 7th century? dont think so, maybe the 6th under khosraw (spelling)
do you have a map of it when it was at its largest size?
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Zagros
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Posted: 28-Aug-2005 at 13:58 |
Azimuth, the Sassanid Empire was onl weakened in the mid to late 620s, before that Jerusalem was conquered and all of the land was under iron grip of Zaroastrian priests.
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Maju
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Posted: 29-Aug-2005 at 01:46 |
Following with the Ghassanids... how much do you think, that the
intra-Christian tensions created by Byzantine Orthodoxia (prosecuting
Nestorians, frictioning with Monophisites of Syria and Egypt) helped to
the fast expansion of Islam in the SE provinces of Byzantium? My vague
impression is that it was very important, specially as Islam initially
wasn't very proselitist and tolerated well Christians (and was
coincident with these two theological currents in Jesus being just a
holy man, not a Divine avatar, as Orthodoxia and Catholoicism
claim).
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