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Topic ClosedWhy not a Kurdistan?

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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Why not a Kurdistan?
    Posted: 26-Aug-2005 at 18:48

Despite Israel's small size, many Muslims have no problem demanding that Israel allow the creation of another Arab terrorist state, dedicated to its destruction, right in its backyard.

Despite the fact that hundreds of thousands of Kurds have been gassed and slaughtered by Iraq, Syria and Turkey, most countries around the world insists the Kurds remain stateless, as a part of Iraq, regardless of the consequences that are likely to ensue. One reason given is that it will destabilize the area, especially the suppressed Kurdish minority in Turkey. Turkey is about forty times larger than Israel, its Kurdish population comprising twenty percent, similar to the Arabs in Israel. Yet Turkish people  have no problem hypocritically demanding that Israel allow the creation of a arab state, while insisting the Kurds remain forever stateless.

Over thirty million Kurds remain stateless today, often at someone else's mercy. At a time when much of the world insists that there be a 23rd Arab state, there is a nauseating silence over the plight of this people. Kurdish culture and language has periodically been "outlawed" in attempts to Arabize or Turkify them, and in an age when other dormant nations/national groups were able to seize the moment with the collapse of empires, the Kurds were repeatedly denied this chance by an assortment of so-called "friends" and foes alike.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Aug-2005 at 19:09

source: http://www.think-israel.org/honigman.statedept.html

What is with the word "Foggy Bottom" where you have used "Muslim"?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Aug-2005 at 19:12

Potential for a sticky topic.

Strategos you seem to have a knack for creating sensitive topics that will eventually lead to flaming responses and so forth. I am hopefull that this is not your intention. Just to make sure, it would be nice of you to stick around and follow this thread, plus provide regular postings on this subject. If you want to light a firecracker then hang around to hear the bang.

Kurds were not gassed in Turkey. But if they were I am sure you would love to enlighten us.



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Aug-2005 at 19:14
Geographically speaking, where were you planning on having this Kurdish state?

I don't see any middle eastern nation willingly giving up some of its land to help form a Kurdish State. Unless of course you were planning on a independent Kurdish state in Norther Iraq.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Aug-2005 at 19:15
Originally posted by Zagros

source: http://www.think-israel.org/honigman.statedept.html

What is with the word "Foggy Bottom" where you have used "Muslim"?

Was not sure what the source meant by that. gassed it turkey?



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Aug-2005 at 19:16
Originally posted by Seko

Potential for a sticky topic.

Strategos you seem to have a knack for creating sensitive topics that will eventually lead to flaming responses and so forth.

 

Not gassed perhaps, but killed, as conflicts continue today.

Can you name more than a couple flame war topics recently? I can not remember..      I am sorry I make interesting topics,



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Aug-2005 at 19:18
Kurds were gassed at the order of Winston Churchill in the 20s or 30s. They rebelled in Iraq when they were denied a nation.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Aug-2005 at 19:29
Thanks, Strategos, for starting such a fascinating and educational topic.
When I just this morning contemplated what to discuss next in the International Forum, I thought , let's do "Kurdistan", we haven't had that for ages and it's always great fun. You beat me to it.
I will follow this debate with interest and attention.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Aug-2005 at 19:30

Originally posted by Komnenos

Thanks, Strategos, for starting such a fascinating and educational topic.
When I just this morning contemplated what to discuss next in the International Forum, I thought , let's do "Kurdistan", we haven't had that for ages and it's always great fun. You beat me to it.
I will follow this debate with interest and attention.

thanks, i like to discuss topics of the world, Not just post in the Beat the picture above your thread post, which is not even really historically related..

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Aug-2005 at 19:41

The Kurds who dont even have their so called Kurdistan yet are already bothering the minorities with in their area. Kurds are doing the same thing to the minoritys (Assyrians, Turkomens, Shabaks and Yezidis) inside "Kurdistan" as was done on them by Saddam.

The Assyrians, Turkomens, Shabaks and Yezidies are all being runned out by the Kurds. Their land and villages are all being bought by the Kurdish political parties. All the grants from the U.S. goverment that should be given to the Assyrians, Turkomens, Shabaks and Yezidies directly are all being given to the Kurdish Regional Government to then give to them. Instead of giving the money to the minorties like told to by the U.S. Goverment, the Kurdish Regional Government uses the money for their own benefit to Kurdify the people that the money should be given to.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Aug-2005 at 20:02
Originally posted by strategos

Originally posted by Seko

Potential for a sticky topic.

Strategos you seem to have a knack for creating sensitive topics that will eventually lead to flaming responses and so forth.

 

"Not gassed perhaps, but killed, as conflicts continue today." Strategos' own wording

Can you name more than a couple flame war topics recently? I can not remember..      I am sorry I make interesting topics,

 

If you want to use my quotes do so without editing. Otherwise people may get the wrong impression. Sneaky!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Aug-2005 at 01:21
Originally posted by Seko

Originally posted by strategos

Originally posted by Seko

Potential for a sticky topic.

Strategos you seem to have a knack for creating sensitive topics that will eventually lead to flaming responses and so forth.

 

"Not gassed perhaps, but killed, as conflicts continue today." Strategos' own wording

Can you name more than a couple flame war topics recently? I can not remember..      I am sorry I make interesting topics,

 

If you want to use my quotes do so without editing. Otherwise people may get the wrong impression. Sneaky!

Yes i wrote that, I do not know why it was in the quote. I deleted some stuff maybe I forgot that. I will not deny I wrote that, and had no intention of that tio be your quote.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Aug-2005 at 02:10
Originally posted by strategos

Despite Israel's small size, many Muslims have no problem demanding that Israel allow the creation of another Arab terrorist state, dedicated to its destruction, right in its backyard.



This is such a blatant abuse of politically charged terminology that I can't but feel outraged.

First, not just Muslims but many non-Muslims as myself support the Palestinian cause.

Second the actual insulting demand is that Palestine should allow a Jewish terrorist state not in their backyard but in the very heart of their country, giving them about 75%-100% of their own territory, including Jerusalem.

Let's get Israelis back to Europe or wherever they came from!

(And I favor Kurdistan as well, of course).

NO GOD, NO MASTER!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Aug-2005 at 04:05
For the first, let's solve the Shabak and Yezidi problem, THEY ARE KURDS.
Shabak are shiakurds, and Yezidi are Kurds with Yezidism as their religion. That's just propaganda from arabs, so they can split up the Kurds.

I just saw Kurdish tv, and i saw Yezidi Kurds demonstrate and they said like "We are Kurds", and hold up a picture of Barzani. So your totally wrong my friend.

Kurds got gassed in Halabja, in 1988, by Saddam, it was part of his "an-anfal" campaign, which resulted in 182 000 kurdish deaths.


They don't speak enough about the Kurds, because we have never taken hostages, never hijacked a plane. But I am proud of this.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Aug-2005 at 04:52

Strategos you seem to have a knack for creating sensitive topics that will eventually lead to flaming responses

Yes, it will...

Kurds are doing the same thing to the minoritys (Assyrians, Turkomens, Shabaks and Yezidis) inside "Kurdistan" as was done on them by Saddam.

The Assyrians, Turkomens, Shabaks and Yezidies are all being runned out by the Kurds. Their land and villages are all being bought by the Kurdish political parties. All the grants from the U.S. goverment that should be given to the Assyrians, Turkomens, Shabaks and Yezidies directly are all being given to the Kurdish Regional Government to then give to them. Instead of giving the money to the minorties like told to by the U.S. Goverment, the Kurdish Regional Government uses the money for their own benefit to Kurdify the people that the money should be given to.

Finally some sense...

USA have realized that because of the religious structure of Turkish society, they cant use Turkey as a full supporter of the dirty job in Middle East, and as a full ally of Israel. Turkish assembly even didnt let them invade Iraq, even with the US pressure.

So the next purpose is Kurdistan for USa, then they'll be able to have a "Troyan horse", a puppet Kurdish state, under the rule of Jewish leaders, always supporting the causes of Israel and US against the Middle Eastern powers.

I witness here that some of our Iranian forumers react these issues with their romanticism, saying Kurds are their bros and should have the their independent state. I guess they cant see that USA will use it as the FIRST BASE against the invasion of Iran. Israeli army is training in American bases in Turkey, especially in central and southern anatolia. Why? Because the climate, the geography etc. are all similar with Iran's. So simply, the Kurdish bros of Iran will lead to the American-Israel invasion of Iran in the future.

Why do you think USA applies pro Kurdish policies in Middle East, placing them everywhere, supporting, educating, arming their terrorists since the last 10-20 years? Why do you think Kirkuk became a Kurdish city bu an american program? They want a Jewish ally. And that's Kurdistan. Noone cares about poor Kurds having their own state, which they have NEVER had in history., and they have no need for? They gained EVERY SINGLE RIGHT in Turkey, but now what? PKK became active again. What's their purpose? Our government is building Kurdish educating schools everywhere and they are closed because of lack of students. Radio stations are closed because of lack of interest.

NO to Kurdistan.

No to Greater Middle East Project

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Aug-2005 at 05:10
"Finally some sense..."

What sense? That he's totally wrong, but it's good for you, right? It's good for you to hear the Kurds are bad and so on. That's what makes it sense.

"Noone cares about poor Kurds having their own state, which they have NEVER had in history., and they have no need for?"

We have a need for our own country, how would you feel if there is no turkish state, huh? We need it for our culture to survive, for our children to speak kurdish, our mothertongue, to even exist. Turkey, Iraq, Syria and Iran have never favoured Kurds, they don't care about us. We need to care for ourselves, and that's why we need a country for ourselves.
They don't speak enough about the Kurds, because we have never taken hostages, never hijacked a plane. But I am proud of this.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Aug-2005 at 06:02

Kurds are bad

Noone have claimed that, and if someone does, I would oppose him. Kurds cannot be generalized, any nation cant, but it is wel known that they are the new tools of western imperialism against the two major powers of Middle East, Turkey and Iran.

We have a need for our own country, how would you feel if there is no turkish state, huh? We need it for our culture to survive, for our children to speak kurdish, our mothertongue, to even exist

What? Arent you aware of the government funded Kurdish schools in Turkey, closed because of lack of interest? Arent you aware of the Kurdish radio, Kurds having the best positions in Turkish endustry-government etc.? Arent you aware of all those elite rich Kurds in Turkey, taking funds from the government in the name of investigation to southeast but preferring to build hotels in Marmaris rather than caring about their bros? Kurds dont let themselves live in wealth, they are still feudal system of their high elite class, using their own people and country for their benefits.

Of course a country like Turkey cant take care of every Kurd with its best efforts, Kurdish ashirahs are full of women having 10-15 children to send to PKK, they are still poor, making 15 children and begging the government to feed them. Oh, ok, yes master, I have to feed your 15 potential PKK children and your feudal, uneducated ashirahs with the very important taxes of our country which is even unable to pay the everyyear extra loans to IMF. That's what you call lack of rights of minorities. Congrats...

 



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Aug-2005 at 09:16

I have no problem with Kurdistan, Kurds can have their country too, but when this comes from a greeks, I becomes angry.Strageous, you greeks dont permit a country to call herself as you wish, because some of your land names is macedonia, but you support, Other countries should give their land, and you dont even give name of your lands.

Why dont you greeks think their job? You are not creating sypmaty for kurds. Because of people like you(greeks, americans or jews) Kurds are seen as traitor of Islamic world. Mind with your own job. I am sure, If kurds are lived at russia, you will not give them any sh*t.

It looks like, you like kurds much but dont remember chechens.

Mind your own job, this is a discussion between Kurds, Turks, arabs and persians. You greeks have no job here. Should I remind you, your place is at Europea not middle asia.

By the way, I dont care If a kurdistan built even If turkey becomes Kurdistan, but I dont like dividing countries at middle east. We are already divided much, and others(Americans, Russian or Europeans) are using this conflicts.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Aug-2005 at 09:42
Thanks, Strategos, for starting such a fascinating and educational topic.


It seems to me that maybe strategos is getting a kick out of agitation. His new avatar doesn't help...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Aug-2005 at 13:09
Originally posted by Cent

"Finally some sense..."

What sense? That he's totally wrong, but it's good for you, right? It's good for you to hear the Kurds are bad and so on. That's what makes it sense.

"Noone cares about poor Kurds having their own state, which they have NEVER had in history., and they have no need for?"

We have a need for our own country, how would you feel if there is no turkish state, huh? We need it for our culture to survive, for our children to speak kurdish, our mothertongue, to even exist. Turkey, Iraq, Syria and Iran have never favoured Kurds, they don't care about us. We need to care for ourselves, and that's why we need a country for ourselves.


In my opinion Kurds can not govern themselves.I'll give you a simple example.my sister was a teacher in Diyarbakir(east of Turkey).when I visit the town where the school was i saw two different villages down the road.Villages were divided by the road.village on the left side seemed like a forest, The trees, the green grass and the production fields.The village on the right side seemed like a dessert.No trees, no green grass houses were made out of mud.It was so strange that took my attention.I asked my sister what is the deal with the villages, she said that the people of the village on the left side emmigrated from Blacksea region(nort of Turkey) While they working their ass off the Kurdish village didn't do anything.they wait everything from the government.Even the school where my sister was teacher built by the villagers on the left side.Village on the left side brought their own water from ground themselves.They even offered the water to Kurdish village but they had to built a channel to carry the water, you know what the Kurdish village said? why should we do it, government has to built it.you see? if you wait everything from the government you f.u.c.k.e.d! This is almost the exact situation in East of Turkey.Kurds don't do nothing! they are so lazy. All they do is multipy like mushrooms.10 to 15 children from a family and they want government to feed them.I have nothing against Kurds but this is the truth.
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