Modern Greeks and their Acceptance of Byzantium

No. Fatih was even ashamed of Byzanthine Empire, because it considered the empire as betraying its Roman origins, and being Hellenized. Fatih was proud of Roman heritage, not Byzanthine. One of his titles were "Kayser-i Rum", meaning "Roman Caesar".

BTW, I m also proud of Akkoyunu state...

Believe it? Man, I dont live in Mars or follow Turkish newspaper to learn what Turks do. I am in Turkey, I live here, my family, my everything belongs to Anatolia. And as everyone can see, there was an obvious differing of Turks (Anatolia- Sharq- Ta�ra) and Istanbul (Konstantiniye). Ottomans called Turks as "Etrak-i bi-idrak". I guess you can figure out what it means.

We, anatolians were always the real Turks. Istanbul was cuarantined from Anatolia, it was in a different continent, from a different civilization and culture. You may have been listening Turkish classical music, having fish and wine since 2000 years in Konstantiniye, but we havent. Everyone in Turkey knows that the real voice of the Anatolian was "a��k"s and "eren"s, not "efendi"s or tenors.

If we are the sons of anatolians, we arent the sons of Byzanthines. You may be a son of Hagia Sophia or a Byzanthine saint but we are the sons of erens of Khorasan. But yeah, we are the sons of maybe not architects of, but builders of Suleymaniye mosque. Isnt the "maharet" with "boyaci"?

What? From Turks of Gagavuzia to Altaysk, they have burek. Baglama is an Ottomanicized version of the national insturements of Central Asians, "kopuz". We have tones of other examples that are adopted into Greek life from Turkish origins, and the verse of course. But it turns neither Greeks into Ottomans, nor Turks into Byzanthines...

BTW : Ottomans called Turks as "Etrak-i bi-idrak".

Etrak-i bi-idrak: Stupid turks.

This is a really intersting topic and I'd like to make my first contribution to "All Empires" here.

In the effort to bring this topic back on track, I will contribute a couple of reasons I've thought about the original question.>

I believe that the reason behind the Greeks not being so enthusiastic about their Byzantine heritage is

a)deceiving

b)has to do mostly with political choices made right after the establishment of the modern Greek state.

Explaining:

a) Actually, thanks to Orthodox religion mostly, most Greeks identify with Byzantion and not with the ancient Greeks. The two-headed eagle, the legends (such as �the petrified king�) the patriarch, the tradition � everything reminds of Byzantion but not of classical or post-classical Greece. Most Greeks feel like Byzantion is a part of Greek history and that is enforced by the state too, seing that Byzantine history is taught as part of the Greek history anyway.

b) The Greek revolution (and, right after that, the newly formed Greek state) had to gain the respect and recognition of the �West� to have even a small chance of surviving and thriving in a turbulent, constantly changing world. In the 19^th century �the West� either despised the medieval Greek empire or (more often) didn�t know much about it. On the contrary, classical Greece had already been recognized as the starting point of the �western culture� and the bloom of the classical studies that culminated in the 19^th century shows just that. So, the spiritual leadership of the newly freed Greeks sought a better model than the half-barbaric medieval subjects of the oppressive, widely unknown and definitely not thought after as something of any interest*, Byzantion. And they found it in their distant ancestors, those that established the idea of �the West�, those that thought of (and implemented) Democracy, those that laid the foundations of science, abstract thought and many other things. Wise choice, if you ask me. But they had a hell of a time trying to pass this choice among the populace � even a few decades ago you�d whitness people in villages talking a lot about Byzantion (something even visible in the name the Greeks mostly used during the centuries under Ottoman rule to refer to themselves: Romioi) and very little about Aristotle, or Alexandros, or Themistokles, or Plato.

*Don�t forget those are the times when Gibbons would consider Byzantium as a part of the �fall� of the Roman empire, a state in constant decline, of little more value than the barbaric Germanics who took over the Western part of the Empire� and that view wouldn�t change for the next 100 years either>>

It might be "a matter of taste" for the resident Greeks of this board, but there are 11 mi. Greeks (20+ if we count in the 'diaspora') and they are hardly represented by this rather small sample. I was trying to rationalize the general consencous.

Hi Phalanx

Thanks for clearing this up, I thought it was more of a general notion, than just the Greeks of AE. But even you (we) have aquired our personal taste somehow... and the fact that everything "official" speaks about the glory of our distant ancestors, while keeping rather quiet of the "Romioi" is a factor in that direction.