Author |
Share Topic Topic Search Topic Options
|
Zagros
Emperor
Suspended
Joined: 11-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8792
|
Quote Reply
Topic: T-90M/S vs. Type 98G Posted: 24-Aug-2005 at 11:33 |
I just read that the Indians will be getting LAHAT missile technology for their armour.
|
|
JiNanRen
Colonel
Joined: 06-Apr-2005
Location: China
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 547
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 24-Aug-2005 at 10:27 |
The JD-3 laser dazzler
system comprises of laser warning devices, a dome shaped sensor on the
turret's roof-top, and a box shaped Laser Self Defense Weapon(LSDW)
which "fires" a laser beam at the illuminating source, either a tank
gunner, helicopter or missile launcher. The system employs two modes of
operation the low power mode is used at the general direction of the
threat, in a search pattern designed to locate the target's optics.
Once locked on a target, the laser switches to high power mode, to
defeat the target by blinding the operator or saturating its
electro-optical circuits. The boxy Laser Self Defense Weapon can
round 360 degrees and can be elevated to attack helicopters.
The system serves as a combined rangefinder/warning/self-defense
device, so it would acquire a target just quick as any other laser
rangefinder on other modern tanks. Also a 10km range laser
dazzler is underdevelopment.
|
|
Zagros
Emperor
Suspended
Joined: 11-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8792
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 24-Aug-2005 at 04:47 |
Interesting, I thought you meant that the laser itself shoots down the projectiles.
Another point is how long do they expect to be targeted by a laser before they are hit? The amount of time to make the turrt turn into the right direction feel out the enemy laser and then fire the main beam to blind the enemy gunner seems like it could take a little too long.
|
|
JiNanRen
Colonel
Joined: 06-Apr-2005
Location: China
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 547
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 24-Aug-2005 at 00:37 |
|
The first and probably the world's only
operationally deployed APS developed by the Russian KBP
company was the 1030M Drozd (Thrush), a which was first
installed on a T- 55AD MBT in 1983s. The automatic system is
capable of defeating anti-tank guided missiles and grenades,
approaching at speeds between 70 to 700 meters per second. The
system employed
eight 107mm anti-missile rockets, triggered by a pair of
millimeter-wave radar sensors mounted on either side of the turret
facing forwards. This configuration utilized the turret traverse
to slew the protective devices into position. The rockets use time
delay fuzing to activate a fragmentation charge at a safe distance
from the tank.
It is assumed that each
radar sensor and rocket quad
covers 40 degrees of the frontal arc. with an elevation of -6 +20
degrees. The rockets can be fired at
any direction the turret points at, and rely on the the radar for
early warning, target detection and intercept parameters (speed
and direction). The original Drozd two quad-round launchers,
utilizing four High Explosive Fragmentation charges, weighing 19kg
each. The total system's weight is below 1,000kg. To provide 120 degrees
coverage, Drozd-2 system was proposed, with five
twin-rocket launch tubes and sensors mounted on different
locations. The system is
currently offered for the upgraded version of the T-80U. It is
also proposed for the "Black Eagle" project.
SHTORA-1 Active Defense
System
Produced by: Electromachina JSC,
Russia |
A typical deployment of IR jammer can be seen on
the Russian T-90, which mounts the Shtora-1 Defensive Aids System
(DAS) shown on picture, with Kontakt5 ERA modules (left). The system protects the tank against guided missiles,
using both
the semi-active command to line of sight (SACLOS) guidance, by an
IR source that mimics the flare on the back of missiles, as well
as laser beam riders and laser-homing weapons. It should
be effective against missiles such as the TOW, HOT, AT-4, AT-5 and
Sagger (Malyutka).
The Russian system also has some capability to counter
laser-guided munitions and ATGMs (Such as Hellfire, Kornet
etc).
Shtora-1 uses a laser warning device operating in the 0.65-1.6
micron range, comprising of an array
of coarse (photo
below right)
and fine resolution (photo below left) sensors, mounted externally on the
turret.
Each of the rough (coarse) laser sensor covers
a
sector of 135 degrees, while the fine sensor covers a 45 degrees, with
3.75 degrees angle of arrival resolution, and -5 to 25 deg. elevation
coverage. The system can automatically slew the turret and gun at the
direction of the threat, to optimize the deployment of a thermal smoke
screen or activation of active protection systems. The sensor detects
laser illuminating and alerts the crew and defensive systems. The
warning display provides the commander and gunner with threat warning
cueing, by sector (at a resolution of 5 degrees) and at a resolution of
3.75 degrees at the 90 deg. frontal arc. The display also provides
jammer and countermeasures status indication. Countermeasures can
employ a 81mm thermal instant smoke grenades, which deploy an instant
smoke screen at a range of 50-80 meters from the tank, within 1.5 - 3
seconds. The 20 meter wide, 15 meter high screen blocks visual, thermal
and laser (0.4 - 14 micron) wave bands. The system also employs a pair
of electro-optical jammer, designated TShU1-7, which "hijacks" the
missile's command link by feeding the tracker with modulated signals
that cause the missile to deviate from its course, and away from its
intended target. |
|
ARENA-E Active
Protection System for AFV
Manufacturer: KBM |
Arena E Active Protection System
installed on T-80U |
A more complete hemispheric protection
is the Russian Arena E developed by the Russian company KBM.
The system is designed to protect the tank from attacks of
anti-tank guided missiles launched from the ground and by attack
helicopter and lightweight anti-tank grenades (such as RPG). The
system weighs between 1 1.3 tons (depending on the coverage and
configuration) and uses a fixed, omni-directional radar, that
covers a sector of 220 290 degrees around the tank. The
protective charges are housed in a "belt" of 22-26 protective
charges (depending on the turret size and shape), each positioned
to cover a specific sector. Once an incoming threat is detected by
the radar, the system ejects a charge above and sideways from the
tank, to a position best suited for intercepting the target. As
the charge explodes, it throws a deadly hail of fragments
downward, to shutter and destroy the incoming projectile. The
system is capable of engaging incoming missiles, at speeds ranging
from 70 to 700 meters per second. The system creates a virtual
"cone" shaped shield at a radius of 20-30 meters from the tank,
and its response time, from target detection to destruction is
0.07 seconds. When the system is triggered, a warning signal is
activated, to warn infantrymen that may be following the tank to
open some distance or take cover. The status of the Arena E system
is unclear, although the system was seen in public since the mid
1990s, it is believed that funding problems delayed final
development and deployment of the system.
While Arena-E provides an effective protection
against many types of anti-tank threats, from RPGs to fast
missiles such as Hellfire and TOW, it cannot defeat fast missiles
(such as HVM) and tank projectiles, such as HEAT shaped
charge projectiles and APFSDS penetrators. Different
countermeasures are being examined to defeat these threats,
including the deployment of steel bars, which are accelerated into
the projected flight path of the incoming projectile. The kinetic
energy discharged from the collision between the steel bar and the
projectile can disintegrate or destabilize the projectile, shift
it from its course, or cause it to hit the target at angles that
do not facilitate effective penetration. |
Edited by JiNanRen
|
|
JiNanRen
Colonel
Joined: 06-Apr-2005
Location: China
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 547
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 24-Aug-2005 at 00:32 |
According to http://www.sinodefence.com/army/tank/type98.asp
JD-3 laser system
"
The Type 98 features an JD-3 integrated laser
rangefinder/warning/self-defence device. Unlike contemporary Russian
active tank self-defence systems like Drozd, Drozd-2, and Arena, which
launch projectiles to disable or "shoot-down" incoming anti-tank
missiles and projectiles, the Chinese system apparently uses a
high-powered laser to directly attack the enemy weapon's optics and
gunner.
The system includes what
appears to be a laser warning receiver (LWR - the dome-shaped device on
the turret roof behind the commander's position), that warns the crew
that their tank is being illuminated by an enemy range-finding or
weapon-guidance laser. The turret of the tank can then be traversed to
face the direction of the enemy threat, and the laser self-defence
weapon (LSDW - the box-shaped device on the turret roof behind the
gunner's position), can be employed against the source of the enemy
laser.
The procedure of the laser
weapon would first use a low-powered beam to locate the optics of the
enemy weapon. Once the enemy weapon was located, the power level of the
laser would be immediately and dramatically increased. Such an attack
would disable the guidance optics of the enemy weapon and/or damage the
eyesight of the enemy gunner.
The
available photos of the Type 98 have also confirmed that the laser
weapon can be elevated to a higher angle than the tank's main gun,
indicating that the engagement of attack helicopters is possible. In
addition, the laser device could also be used for communications
between friend tanks."
Edited by JiNanRen
|
|
sinosword
Consul
Joined: 29-Jan-2005
Location: China
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 302
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 23-Aug-2005 at 23:29 |
The Al-Khaled is just a improved version of the type 90 for export. It was developed by China's firm "North heavy industy". Just like the situation about FC-1(JF-17), Pakistan just produce those tanks under licence. Even the product line was built by Chinese company.
This is the eaily version of type 90, Al-Khaled was improved from this one. How could our exporting weapon is better than the one operated by ourselves.
|
|
|
Zagros
Emperor
Suspended
Joined: 11-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8792
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 23-Aug-2005 at 16:23 |
Sorry, I made a mistake: here are some stats. The actual range is 5000m too.
Apparently it is has laser protected optics, but I didn't envisige a laser shooting down anti-tank projectiles. You got more info on it?
Crew: 3
Combat weight: 48,000 kg Power-to-weight ratio: 25 hp/t Length:
(main armament forwards): 10.067 m (main armament rear): 9.687 m Width
(without skirts): 3.40 m (with skirts): 3.50 m Height (turret roof): 2.37 m Firing height: n/avail Ground clearance: 0.45 to 0.51 m Track: 2.79 m Track width: n/avail Length of track on ground: 4.78 m Maximum speed: (1st gear, low): 9 km/h (1st gear): 15 km/h (2nd gear): 22 km/h (3rd gear): 39 km/h (4th gear): 62.3 km/h Acceleration (0 to 32 km/h): 10 s Maximum range: 450 km Fording: (without preparation): 1.40 m (with preparation): 5 m Gradient: 60% Side slope: 40% Vertical obstacle: 0.85 m Trench: 2.7 m
Engine: Type: 6TD2 (1,200 HP)
Transmission: ESM 500 hydromechanic with infinitely variable hydraulic steering Brakes: n/avail Suspension: torsion bar Electrical system: n/avail Batteries: n/avail
Armament: (main): 1 x 125 mm gun 125mm Smooth Bore, Chrome Plated, Auto fret aged Circular Carousel Type: (Cassette Type) 22 Rounds / Minute 6-8
FCS/GCS : Type: Image Stabilized (3rd generation director type stabilization), Optics: LASER protected (coaxial): 1 x 7.62 mm MG (anti-aircraft): 1 x 12.7 mm MG Smoke grenade dischargers: 2 x 6, can also lay smoke screen by injecting diesel into the exhaust outlets at the rear
GUNNER SIGHT : Type Integrated, Bi-axis Stabilized Day/Night, Tl, LRF Magnification Dual, 3x & 1 Ox Field of View 20 & 6
COMMANDER SIGHT: Type Panoramic, Bi-Axis stabilized, LRF, 2nd Generation IIT Hunter-Killer Capability Magnification 7.5x Field of View 7 . 5 LRF : Type ND YAG Range200 ~ 5000m AUTO TRACKER: Tracking Error < 0.1 mils Interfaced with Gunner Day Sight & Tl
PROTECTION: Armor Composite (Frontal Arc) ERA, Yes Optional
Ammunition: (main): 39 (coaxial): 3,000 (anti-aircraft): 500 Grenades: 16 (12 Smoke, 4 HE) Gun control equipment Turret power control: powered/manual (by commander): yes (by gunner): yes Turret traverse: 360 Gun elevation/depression: n/avail Gun stabiliser: 2-axis NBC: yes Night vision equipment: yes |
http://www.ciar.org/~ttk/mbt/pakistan.alkhalid.stats-and-tim eline.html
|
|
JiNanRen
Colonel
Joined: 06-Apr-2005
Location: China
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 547
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 23-Aug-2005 at 16:14 |
OMG are your serious. The Arena system on the T-90M warns as well
as uses a high powered laser to shoot down incoming round. And
the ZD-3 system on the Type 98G is a high powered lazer that locates
and blinds enemy sensors and possibly the gunner up to 5kms.
2000m is nothing, even a T-62 is high effective at that range. Today's anti tanks missiles have ranges up to 5kms.
|
|
Zagros
Emperor
Suspended
Joined: 11-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8792
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 23-Aug-2005 at 14:32 |
it has a 2000m (mobile) effective range with a 125mm smooth bore capable of firing rockets, it is also heavily armoured with a low profile. what does laser defence do, warn that you have been sighted?
|
|
JiNanRen
Colonel
Joined: 06-Apr-2005
Location: China
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 547
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 23-Aug-2005 at 14:22 |
AK is inferior to Type 98 because it is basically a Pakistani domestic
version of the Type 90 which was rejected in the early 90 in favor of
the type98. It lacks the armored protection and has no active
defense to counter the threat presented by either the T-90M or Type 98G.
|
|
Zagros
Emperor
Suspended
Joined: 11-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8792
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 23-Aug-2005 at 14:03 |
Close call but I think the Al-Khaled definately > Type98 and T90
A good fight would be Merkava 4 (bulk anmd fire power) and the Al-Khaled (small and agile with very capable firepower).
A better fight yet would be the Abrams M1 v T4
|
|
JiNanRen
Colonel
Joined: 06-Apr-2005
Location: China
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 547
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 23-Aug-2005 at 13:44 |
|
|
JiNanRen
Colonel
Joined: 06-Apr-2005
Location: China
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 547
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 23-Aug-2005 at 13:42 |
Both armed with similiar if not same main gun, similar autoloader, both
have active laser defence systems, it should be closely matched.
|
|
JiNanRen
Colonel
Joined: 06-Apr-2005
Location: China
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 547
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 23-Aug-2005 at 13:40 |
Which tank would you rather in if a war break out over the Himalayas between India and China.
|
|