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T-90M/S vs. Type 98G

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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: T-90M/S vs. Type 98G
    Posted: 24-Aug-2005 at 11:33

I just read that the Indians will be getting LAHAT missile technology for their armour.

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  Quote JiNanRen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Aug-2005 at 10:27
The JD-3 laser dazzler system comprises of laser warning devices, a dome shaped sensor on the turret's roof-top, and a box shaped Laser Self Defense Weapon(LSDW) which "fires" a laser beam at the illuminating source, either a tank gunner, helicopter or missile launcher. The system employs two modes of operation the low power mode is used at the general direction of the threat, in a search pattern designed to locate the target's optics. Once locked on a target, the laser switches to high power mode, to defeat the target by blinding the operator or saturating its electro-optical circuits.  The boxy Laser Self Defense Weapon can round 360 degrees and can be elevated to attack helicopters.  The system serves as a combined rangefinder/warning/self-defense device, so it would acquire a target just quick as any other laser rangefinder on other modern tanks.  Also a 10km range laser dazzler is underdevelopment.
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Aug-2005 at 04:47

Interesting, I thought you meant that the laser itself shoots down the projectiles.

Another point is how long do they expect to be targeted by a laser before they are hit? The amount of time to make the turrt turn into the right direction feel out the enemy laser and then fire the main beam to blind the enemy gunner seems like it could take a little too long.

 

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  Quote JiNanRen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Aug-2005 at 00:37

The first and probably the world's only operationally deployed APS developed by the Russian KBP company was the 1030M Drozd (Thrush), a which was first installed on a T- 55AD MBT in 1983s. The automatic system is capable of defeating anti-tank guided missiles and grenades, approaching at speeds between 70 to 700 meters per second. The system employed eight 107mm anti-missile rockets, triggered by a pair of millimeter-wave radar sensors mounted on either side of the turret facing forwards. This configuration utilized the turret traverse to slew the protective devices into position. The rockets use time delay fuzing to activate a fragmentation charge at a safe distance from the tank. It is assumed that each radar sensor and rocket quad covers 40 degrees of the frontal arc. with an elevation of -6 +20 degrees. The rockets can be fired at any direction the turret points at, and rely on the the radar for early warning, target detection and intercept parameters (speed and direction). The original Drozd two quad-round launchers, utilizing four High Explosive Fragmentation charges, weighing 19kg each. The total system's weight is below 1,000kg. To provide 120 degrees coverage, Drozd-2 system was proposed, with five twin-rocket launch tubes and sensors mounted on different locations. The system is currently offered for the upgraded version of the T-80U. It is also proposed for the "Black Eagle" project.


SHTORA-1 Active Defense System

Produced by: Electromachina JSC, Russia

SHTORA-1 use active IR jammers to disrupt AT missle's guidance commandslign=A typical deployment of IR jammer can be seen on the Russian T-90, which mounts the Shtora-1 Defensive Aids System (DAS) shown on picture, with Kontakt5 ERA modules (left). The system protects the tank against guided missiles, using both the semi-active command to line of sight (SACLOS) guidance, by an IR source that mimics the flare on the back of missiles, as well as laser beam riders and laser-homing weapons. It should be effective against missiles such as the TOW, HOT, AT-4, AT-5 and Sagger (Malyutka). The Russian system also has some capability to counter laser-guided munitions and ATGMs (Such as Hellfire, Kornet etc).
A typical deployment of IR jammer can be seen on the Russian T-90, which mounts the Shtora-1 Defensive Aids System (DAS) shown on picture, with Kontakt5 ERA modulesShtora-1 uses a laser warning device operating in the 0.65-1.6 micron range, comprising of an array of coarse (photo below right) and fine resolution (photo below left) sensors, mounted externally on the turret. Each of the rough (coarse) laser sensor covers Infrared jammer TShU1-7, part of the SHTORA-1 DASa sector of 135 degrees, while the fine sensor covers a 45 degrees, with 3.75 degrees angle of arrival resolution, and -5 to 25 deg. elevation coverage. The system can automatically slew the turret and gun at the direction of the threat, to optimize the deployment of a thermal smoke screen or activation of active protection systems. The sensor detects laser illuminating and alerts the crew and defensive systems. The warning display provides the commander and gunner with threat warning cueing, by sector (at a resolution of 5 degrees) and at a resolution of 3.75 degrees at the 90 deg. frontal arc. The display also provides jammer and countermeasures status indication. Countermeasures can employ a 81mm thermal instant smoke grenades, which deploy an instant smoke screen at a range of 50-80 meters from the tank, within 1.5 - 3 seconds. The 20 meter wide, 15 meter high screen blocks visual, thermal and laser (0.4 - 14 micron) wave bands. The system also employs a pair of electro-optical jammer, designated TShU1-7, which "hijacks" the missile's command link by feeding the tracker with modulated signals that cause the missile to deviate from its course, and away from its intended target.

Fine resolution (narrow-field) laser warning sensor, part of the SHTORA-1 DASCoarse (wide field) laser warning sensor, part of the SHTORA-1 DAS




ARENA-E Active Protection System for AFV

Manufacturer: KBM

Arena E installed on a Russian T-80U tank
Arena E Active Protection System installed on T-80U

A more complete hemispheric protection is the Russian Arena E developed by the Russian company KBM. The system is designed to protect the tank from attacks of anti-tank guided missiles launched from the ground and by attack helicopter and lightweight anti-tank grenades (such as RPG). The system weighs between 1 1.3 tons (depending on the coverage and configuration) and uses a fixed, omni-directional radar, that covers a sector of 220 290 degrees around the tank. The protective charges are housed in a "belt" of 22-26 protective charges (depending on the turret size and shape), each positioned to cover a specific sector. Once an incoming threat is detected by the radar, the system ejects a charge above and sideways from the tank, to a position best suited for intercepting the target. As the charge explodes, it throws a deadly hail of fragments downward, to shutter and destroy the incoming projectile. The system is capable of engaging incoming missiles, at speeds ranging from 70 to 700 meters per second. The system creates a virtual "cone" shaped shield at a radius of 20-30 meters from the tank, and its response time, from target detection to destruction is 0.07 seconds. When the system is triggered, a warning signal is activated, to warn infantrymen that may be following the tank to open some distance or take cover. The status of the Arena E system is unclear, although the system was seen in public since the mid 1990s, it is believed that funding problems delayed final development and deployment of the system. 

While Arena-E provides an effective protection against many types of anti-tank threats, from RPGs to fast missiles such as Hellfire and TOW, it cannot defeat fast missiles (such as HVM) and tank projectiles, such as HEAT shaped charge projectiles and APFSDS penetrators. Different countermeasures are being examined to defeat these threats, including the deployment of steel bars, which are accelerated into the projected flight path of the incoming projectile. The kinetic energy discharged from the collision between the steel bar and the projectile can disintegrate or destabilize the projectile, shift it from its course, or cause it to hit the target at angles that do not facilitate effective penetration.





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  Quote JiNanRen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Aug-2005 at 00:32
According to http://www.sinodefence.com/army/tank/type98.asp

JD-3 laser system

"

The Type 98 features an JD-3 integrated laser rangefinder/warning/self-defence device. Unlike contemporary Russian active tank self-defence systems like Drozd, Drozd-2, and Arena, which launch projectiles to disable or "shoot-down" incoming anti-tank missiles and projectiles, the Chinese system apparently uses a high-powered laser to directly attack the enemy weapon's optics and gunner.

The system includes what appears to be a laser warning receiver (LWR - the dome-shaped device on the turret roof behind the commander's position), that warns the crew that their tank is being illuminated by an enemy range-finding or weapon-guidance laser. The turret of the tank can then be traversed to face the direction of the enemy threat, and the laser self-defence weapon (LSDW - the box-shaped device on the turret roof behind the gunner's position), can be employed against the source of the enemy laser.

The procedure of the laser weapon would first use a low-powered beam to locate the optics of the enemy weapon. Once the enemy weapon was located, the power level of the laser would be immediately and dramatically increased. Such an attack would disable the guidance optics of the enemy weapon and/or damage the eyesight of the enemy gunner.

The available photos of the Type 98 have also confirmed that the laser weapon can be elevated to a higher angle than the tank's main gun, indicating that the engagement of attack helicopters is possible. In addition, the laser device could also be used for communications between friend tanks."



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  Quote sinosword Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Aug-2005 at 23:29

The Al-Khaled is just a improved version of the type 90 for export. It was  developed by China's firm "North heavy industy". Just like the situation about FC-1(JF-17), Pakistan just produce those tanks under licence. Even the product line was built by Chinese company.

This is the eaily version of type 90, Al-Khaled was improved from this one. How could our exporting weapon is better than the one operated by ourselves. 

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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Aug-2005 at 16:23

Sorry, I made a mistake: here are some stats. The actual range is 5000m too.

Apparently it is has laser protected optics, but I didn't envisige a laser shooting down anti-tank projectiles. You got more info on it?

Crew: 3

Combat weight: 48,000 kg
Power-to-weight ratio: 25 hp/t
Length:

(main armament forwards): 10.067 m
(main armament rear): 9.687 m
Width

(without skirts): 3.40 m
(with skirts): 3.50 m
Height (turret roof): 2.37 m
Firing height: n/avail
Ground clearance: 0.45 to 0.51 m
Track: 2.79 m
Track width: n/avail
Length of track on ground: 4.78 m
Maximum speed:
(1st gear, low): 9 km/h
(1st gear): 15 km/h
(2nd gear): 22 km/h
(3rd gear): 39 km/h
(4th gear): 62.3 km/h
Acceleration (0 to 32 km/h): 10 s
Maximum range: 450 km
Fording:
(without preparation): 1.40 m
(with preparation): 5 m
Gradient: 60%
Side slope: 40%
Vertical obstacle: 0.85 m
Trench: 2.7 m

Engine: Type: 6TD2 (1,200 HP)

Transmission: ESM 500 hydromechanic with infinitely variable
hydraulic steering
Brakes: n/avail
Suspension: torsion bar
Electrical system: n/avail
Batteries: n/avail

Armament:
(main): 1 x 125 mm gun 125mm Smooth Bore, Chrome Plated, Auto fret aged
Circular Carousel Type: (Cassette Type) 22 Rounds / Minute 6-8

FCS/GCS : Type: Image Stabilized (3rd generation director type stabilization), Optics: LASER protected (coaxial): 1 x 7.62 mm MG
(anti-aircraft): 1 x 12.7 mm MG
Smoke grenade dischargers: 2 x 6, can also lay smoke screen by injecting diesel into the exhaust outlets at the rear

GUNNER SIGHT : Type Integrated, Bi-axis Stabilized Day/Night, Tl, LRF
Magnification Dual, 3x & 1 Ox
Field of View 20 & 6

COMMANDER SIGHT:
Type Panoramic,
Bi-Axis stabilized,
LRF, 2nd Generation IIT
Hunter-Killer Capability
Magnification 7.5x
Field of View 7 . 5
LRF : Type ND YAG
Range200 ~ 5000m
AUTO TRACKER: Tracking Error < 0.1 mils Interfaced with Gunner Day Sight & Tl

PROTECTION: Armor Composite (Frontal Arc) ERA, Yes Optional

Ammunition:
(main): 39
(coaxial): 3,000
(anti-aircraft): 500
Grenades: 16 (12 Smoke, 4 HE)
Gun control equipment
Turret power control: powered/manual
(by commander): yes
(by gunner): yes
Turret traverse: 360
Gun elevation/depression: n/avail
Gun stabiliser: 2-axis
NBC: yes
Night vision equipment: yes

http://www.ciar.org/~ttk/mbt/pakistan.alkhalid.stats-and-tim eline.html

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  Quote JiNanRen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Aug-2005 at 16:14
OMG are your serious.  The Arena system on the T-90M warns as well as uses a high powered laser to shoot down incoming round.  And the ZD-3 system on the Type 98G is a high powered lazer that locates and blinds enemy sensors and possibly the gunner up to 5kms.

2000m is nothing, even a T-62 is high effective at that range.  Today's anti tanks missiles have ranges up to 5kms.
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Aug-2005 at 14:32
it has a 2000m (mobile) effective range with a 125mm smooth bore capable of firing rockets, it is also heavily armoured with a low profile. what does laser defence do, warn that you have been sighted?
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  Quote JiNanRen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Aug-2005 at 14:22
AK is inferior to Type 98 because it is basically a Pakistani domestic version of the Type 90 which was rejected in the early 90 in favor of the type98.  It lacks the armored protection and has no active defense to counter the threat presented by either the T-90M or Type 98G.
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Aug-2005 at 14:03

Close call but I think the Al-Khaled definately > Type98 and T90

A good fight would be Merkava 4 (bulk anmd fire power) and the Al-Khaled (small and agile with very capable firepower).

A better fight yet would be the Abrams M1 v T4

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  Quote JiNanRen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Aug-2005 at 13:44


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  Quote JiNanRen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Aug-2005 at 13:42
Both armed with similiar if not same main gun, similar autoloader, both have active laser defence systems, it should be closely matched.
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  Quote JiNanRen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Aug-2005 at 13:40
Which tank would you rather in if a war break out over the Himalayas between India and China.




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