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Akskl View Drop Down
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Posts: 132 		  Quote Akskl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Cumans
    Posted: 08-Nov-2005 at 21:42

The so-called "Mongols" of Genghis Khan were ALL Turkic-speaking guys. All Western historians first write about some strange so-called "Turko-Mongols" - Kereits, Naimans, Jalairs, Qongyrats, Merkits, Onguts (now Waqs or Uaks), etc.  - who were all Turkic-speaking nomads (and all the Western historians admit that they were Turkic speakers!) living on territories north of the Great Wall of China. And then, "for brevity"   , the Western historians start to call them just "Mongols"!!     

All the above-mentioned tribes are parts of modern Kazaks (Middle Horde - or Orta Juz).  They were Turks in 12-13 centuries and they are Turks now!  All speculations about the so-called "transfer of ethnonyms", assimilation or Turkization of the "Mongols",  is total nonsense.

Click several times on this book and read the Chapter 1, please:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0631189491/ref=sib_dp_pt/103 -9391005-5097445#reader-link

 



Edited by Akskl
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DayI View Drop Down
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Posts: 2408 		  Quote DayI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Nov-2005 at 07:38
ok, thanks
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Posts: 451 		  Quote tadamson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Nov-2005 at 07:13
Originally posted by Akskl

The so-called "Mongols" of Genghis Khan were ALL Turkic-speaking guys.



This is simply not true.
Many of the peoples that joined Temuljin spoke 'turkish' languages, but many others spoke 'mongol' languages, some 'tungistic', some 'iranian' etc..

The Golden Horde fairly rapidly became 'turkish' speaking, but all the other Mongol states remained 'mongol' speakers.
rgds.

      Tom..
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Posts: 2408 		  Quote DayI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Nov-2005 at 11:12
Originally posted by tadamson



The Golden Horde fairly rapidly became 'turkish' speaking, but all the other Mongol states remained 'mongol' speakers.
this is not true, chagatai khanate whas also a mongol khanate, but even the rulers did speak Turkish. Also for the others.
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Posts: 451 		  Quote tadamson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Nov-2005 at 10:20
Originally posted by DayI

Originally posted by tadamson



The Golden Horde fairly rapidly became 'turkish' speaking, but all the other Mongol states remained 'mongol' speakers.
this is not true, chagatai khanate whas also a mongol khanate, but even the rulers did speak Turkish. Also for the others.


Written records are in Mongol and Persian,  not Turkish.  Even Timur had to get Mongol interpreters to talk to Chagatai officials when he adsorbed the state into his empire.
rgds.

      Tom..
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Akskl View Drop Down
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Posts: 132 		  Quote Akskl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Nov-2005 at 15:28
Could you please support your statements with any proofs (links, exact citations, refs, etc.)?

Edited by Akskl
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Nagyfejedelem View Drop Down
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For this topic: Cuman place-names

Hungary: place-names with in Kun

from the 12. century: Cunoz, Cuni

from the 13. century: Kun, Cun, Cunus

from the 14. century: Kuun, Kuni, Ktkunfalu, Kwnfalw, Kunfalu

from the 15. century: Kunlehotaya, Kwned, Kwnfalva, Kunagatha

from the 16. century: Kn, Kun

place-names with in Kuman: Kumanpataka, Komanzeg, Comanfalua, Komnyfalva, Komnafalva

Roumania: Comanul, Comana, Comanca, Comanita, Comani, Comaneasca,  Comanesti, Comaneanca, Comanac, Comanda resti

a place-name with in Kun is only one: Cunesti

Bulgaria : Kumanite, Kumanovci, Kumanica, Kumanova-Cuka, Kuman, Kumanov, Kumanidis

Macedonia: Kumanovo, Kumancevo, Kumanci, Kuman



Edited by Nagyfejedelem
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Posts: 132 		  Quote Death Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Apr-2006 at 16:37
Kumans or Kun as known in Magyar(Hungarian) language, are one of the tribes that joined the Hungarian kingdom.They were speaking a language "similar" to Turkish-the reaserch sais. I dont think we can say anythink for certain about anything, guess what , there were no fono records of these people speaking. Oh and one more thing,these informations are not verificable cause this IS the internet.We can talk about it but thats about it.
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Posts: 804 		  Quote Raider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Apr-2006 at 03:10

The so-called Cuman paternoster:

Bezen attamaz kenze kikte
szen lszen szen adon
dsn szen kkln
nitziengen gerde ali kikte
bezen akomezne oknemezne
bergezge pitbtr kngn
ill bezen menemezne
neszen bezde jermez berge utrogergene
illme bezne algyamanna
kutkor bezne algyamanna
szen brsn boka csalli
batson igye tengria. men.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Apr-2006 at 05:38

I'm Kipchak/Cuman.

I'm warrior.

 
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Feramez View Drop Down
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Posts: 521 		  Quote Feramez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Apr-2006 at 13:24
I haven't followoed this topic so I'm not sure, which group of the Kipcak branch do the Cuman belong to?
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Posts: 521 		  Quote Feramez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Apr-2006 at 13:25
Originally posted by Raider

The so-called Cuman paternoster:

Bezen attamaz kenze kikte
szen lszen szen adon
dsn szen kkln
nitziengen gerde ali kikte
bezen akomezne oknemezne
bergezge pitbtr kngn
ill bezen menemezne
neszen bezde jermez berge utrogergene
illme bezne algyamanna
kutkor bezne algyamanna
szen brsn boka csalli
batson igye tengria. men.

This text is in the Cuman language?
For Turks, the homeland isn't Turkey, nor yet Turkistan. Their country is a vast, eternal land: Turan!
-Ziya Gokalp-
TRK DNYASI Forum, join today.
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Raider View Drop Down
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Posts: 804 		  Quote Raider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Apr-2006 at 06:26
Originally posted by Feramez

Originally posted by Raider

The so-called Cuman paternoster:

Bezen attamaz kenze kikte
szen lszen szen adon
dsn szen kkln
nitziengen gerde ali kikte
bezen akomezne oknemezne
bergezge pitbtr kngn
ill bezen menemezne
neszen bezde jermez berge utrogergene
illme bezne algyamanna
kutkor bezne algyamanna
szen brsn boka csalli
batson igye tengria. men.

This text is in the Cuman language?

Yes, it is generally considered a Cuman translation of the protestant Lord's prayer. Although its exact origin is unknown.
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oghuzkb View Drop Down
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Posts: 117 		  Quote oghuzkb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Apr-2006 at 07:21
Originally posted by Raider

Originally posted by Feramez

Originally posted by Raider

The so-called Cuman paternoster:

Bezen attamaz kenze kikte
szen lszen szen adon
dsn szen kkln
nitziengen gerde ali kikte
bezen akomezne oknemezne
bergezge pitbtr kngn
ill bezen menemezne
neszen bezde jermez berge utrogergene
illme bezne algyamanna
kutkor bezne algyamanna
szen brsn boka csalli
batson igye tengria. men.

This text is in the Cuman language?

Yes, it is generally considered a Cuman translation of the protestant Lord's prayer. Although its exact origin is unknown.

Be honest ,I barely understand its meaning,is this close to modern Hungarian language?

ALLAH gave us two books---Quran and Nature.        ---Jamaliddin Efghany
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Raider View Drop Down
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Posts: 804 		  Quote Raider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Apr-2006 at 08:49
Originally posted by oghuzkb

Originally posted by Raider

Originally posted by Feramez

Originally posted by Raider

The so-called Cuman paternoster:

Bezen attamaz kenze kikte
szen lszen szen adon
dsn szen kkln
nitziengen gerde ali kikte
bezen akomezne oknemezne
bergezge pitbtr kngn
ill bezen menemezne
neszen bezde jermez berge utrogergene
illme bezne algyamanna
kutkor bezne algyamanna
szen brsn boka csalli
batson igye tengria. men.

This text is in the Cuman language?

Yes, it is generally considered a Cuman translation of the protestant Lord's prayer. Although its exact origin is unknown.

Be honest ,I barely understand its meaning,is this close to modern Hungarian language?

Absolutely not, I can understand only the "Amen" in the end.
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Feramez View Drop Down
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Posts: 521 		  Quote Feramez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Apr-2006 at 13:00
Yea it does look more like a Slavic language.  Can someone tell me who the Cuman were?  Which Turk group were they?  Which branch they belonged to?  Thanks.
For Turks, the homeland isn't Turkey, nor yet Turkistan. Their country is a vast, eternal land: Turan!
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Posts: 804 		  Quote Raider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Apr-2006 at 09:40
Originally posted by Feramez

Yea it does look more like a Slavic language.  Can someone tell me who the Cuman were?  Which Turk group were they?  Which branch they belonged to?  Thanks.
The Cumans were kipchak turks, the above text is in some kipchak-tartar language.
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Posts: 521 		  Quote Feramez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Apr-2006 at 19:52
How do you spell 'Cuman' in Turkish?
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Seljuk View Drop Down
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Posts: 80 		  Quote Seljuk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Apr-2006 at 19:10

Originally posted by Feramez

How do you spell 'Cuman' in Turkish?

It sould be Kuman or Kpak. Their language was one of three of the main accents of Turkic languaces (apart from yakut and chuvas):

Karluk, Oghuz, Kypchak

Kypchak language(Northwestern Turkish) consist of following accents:

(from wiki)



Edited by Seljuk

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Seljuk View Drop Down
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Posts: 80 		  Quote Seljuk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Apr-2006 at 19:24
Originally posted by Feramez

Originally posted by Raider

The so-called Cuman paternoster:

Bezen attamaz kenze kikte
szen lszen szen adon
dsn szen kkln
nitziengen gerde ali kikte
bezen akomezne oknemezne
bergezge pitbtr kngn
ill bezen menemezne
neszen bezde jermez berge utrogergene
illme bezne algyamanna
kutkor bezne algyamanna
szen brsn boka csalli
batson igye tengria. men.

This text is in the Cuman language?

It surely is at least i can understand tengri

But i wonder in which alphabet it is written in and were they converted to christianity(mentioning of amen?)?



Edited by Seljuk

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