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Greatest Bulgarian ruler

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Poll Question: So who do you think was the Greatest Bulgarian ruler?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
2 [3.45%]
15 [25.86%]
5 [8.62%]
24 [41.38%]
2 [3.45%]
3 [5.17%]
3 [5.17%]
1 [1.72%]
1 [1.72%]
2 [3.45%]
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tsar View Drop Down
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  Quote tsar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Greatest Bulgarian ruler
    Posted: 03-Jun-2006 at 18:17
Boris was a great ruler yes, but dont u mean how Stephen was to Serbia?
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  Quote NikeBG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jun-2006 at 11:49
My vote went to kniaz Boris I, but I was strongly hesitating between him and Kaloyan. Both played a very tricky diplomacy game with the pope and both won. And its true that besides being a successful diplomat, Kaloyan was also an extraordinary commander. But yet I chose Boris, because he walked on an entirely new path, and not simply one of religion. He made a great change, while Kaloyan basically continued an established and not-so-new policy. And besides, Boris is a saint too... Wink
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  Quote Red_Lord Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2006 at 07:59
Originally posted by NikeBG

My vote went to kniaz Boris I, but I was strongly hesitating between him and Kaloyan. Both played a very tricky diplomacy game with the pope and both won. And its true that besides being a successful diplomat, Kaloyan was also an extraordinary commander. But yet I chose Boris, because he walked on an entirely new path, and not simply one of religion. He made a great change, while Kaloyan basically continued an established and not-so-new policy. And besides, Boris is a saint too... Wink
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  Quote DayI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2006 at 14:19
Originally posted by Ognian Tvirem

Krum:
- created the first written Bulgarian laws
- defeated the Avars, as someone already mentioned
- united Transylvanian Bulgars with Danubian Bulgars
- expanded Bulgarian borders, past the Carpathians to the North and established a common border with the Franks to the West
- killed Emperor Nicephorus I along with most of his high commanders
- turned Nicephorus' head into a silver and gold lined drinking cup: This was an old tradition, which was present within the Scythians. I would say that it was as barbarous as Romans watching women and children getting torn apart by lions and calling it 'entertainment'.

That kind of "move" did an Safavvi shah (its shah ismail or abbas i do confuse them alot) from one of the Uzbeki leaders he defeated, and sended his body to Yavuz Sultan Selim.
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  Quote NikeBG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jun-2006 at 10:40
About Krum and Nicephorus's head: afaik, it was believed that if you make a cup from the skull of a powerful or important man and drink from it, you receive some of his "orenda". Of course, this was done only about really important people, not just some great warrior or something. And similar "traditions" I've noticed in some other cultures too - f.e. where they eat their foe's heart or something else. And these in places far from Eurasia...

Btw, about the poll, I'd personally like if there was also Khan Tervel. I really like this guy! First, he helped Justinian II regain his throne and for this received nice lands, gifts and the second title in the empire, only after the emperor's one. Three years later this very same emperor tried to conquer back the lands he gave as a gift. Of course, the Byzantines lost. Then Justinian II was dethroned again and again he came to Tervel for help. And again Tervel aided him with some troops, although not as much as before. And later in time, although Byzantium was supposed to be our "arch-enemy", he assisted them in the Arab siege of Constantinople and crushed the Arabs, slaying around 30 000 of them, for which for a long time he was called even in the West "Saviour of Europe". For me that's enough to be one of the great Bulgarian rulers...
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  Quote Burdokva Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jun-2006 at 07:45
I voted for Yoan-Asen II.
For all my respect for Simeon the Great, Samuil, Kaloyan and all the other great rulers, he was able to create an Empire with a single battle. True, afterwards he fought with the hungarians and the niceans, but Yoan-Asen's rule was mostly peacefull, and made cultural leap for the bulgarians. If only he had lived long enough, his son Peter haden't died, or he haden't maried Irina... oh, well. No one is perfect. Even a sort-lived, an empire is an empire.

Other than those who I already mentioned, Ivailo (in whose honour is my nick-name "Burdokva"). Practically, the only man who defeated the mongols at their height, at the same time leading a civil war against the tsar.
And yet, he also repulsed and defeated the byzantines several times.

Though, by far the most neglected of the great khans/tsars is Tervel- his (of course, with the aid of the byzantines) defeat of the arabas in 717 prevented an even larger arab invasion of Europe than the one stopped at Tours in 732.
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  Quote Thracian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jun-2006 at 02:24
Originally posted by NikeBG

And later in time, although Byzantium was supposed to be our "arch-enemy", he assisted them in the Arab siege of Constantinople and crushed the Arabs, slaying around 30 000 of them,
 
over 100 000.Smile (by the end)
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  Quote NikeBG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jun-2006 at 07:15
I haven't read for 100 000. The only numbers I remember are 30 000 or 32 000 (according to the different sources) slain Arabs in the general battle.
As for Ioan Asen II, I like him pretty much too - less bloodshed, more diplomacy and, of course, "loved not only by Bulgarians, but also by Romeans, and by all others". Although I don't like his constant change of sides, which by the end didn't bring anything stable, except the rise of Nicea.
Btw, when mentioning Ivailo, we should note that he did crush the Tatars, but those Tatars he crushed were not the main Tatar army, just a part of them. Cuz if it was the whole Tatar army, I dare not imagine...
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  Quote bg_turk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jul-2006 at 14:20
Originally posted by giani_82

Simeon, despite the fact that he left a heavy burden to his successor Petyr, he accomplished one of the greatest recognitions for our country. He is among the few people (in world history) who could focus in several different areas and put the same amount of energy into them.


Simeon was a great ruler, but he made a big strategic mistake.

He was too focused on Tsarigrad and exhausted the resoures of the country in order to fulfil his dream of capturing the city instead of strengthening and consolidating his hold of the territories to the North and the West.

No wonder that the Bulgarian Empire was in decline after his rule.

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  Quote Isbul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jul-2006 at 17:31

Yes I dont like Simeon for the same reason

I dont have any specific favorite ruler but generaly from the first empire I like Tervel as it is already mentioned about his deeds and from the second empire-Teodor Svetoslav for stabiliasing the state, broke the vassalige with the Horde also gained Bessarabia from them and maneged the defeat byzantines at Skafida river.
 
Oh and anybody know some info about the unknowed battle between Ivan II Asen and the mongols in 1240-1241.All I know is that bulgarians were victorius but nothing about the armies number or the place where toke place


Edited by Subotai - 03-Jul-2006 at 17:36
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  Quote Thracian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jul-2006 at 16:13
Originally posted by Thracian

Originally posted by NikeBG

And later in time, although Byzantium was supposed to be our "arch-enemy", he assisted them in the Arab siege of Constantinople and crushed the Arabs, slaying around 30 000 of them,
 
over 100 000.Smile (by the end)
 
-(edit) Those killed, in battle, numbered around 30000 (as you stated), while the total amount of arab soldiers was either 80000, or 100000.
After one month, the remaining soldiers retreated (or tried to) back into western Asia.
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  Quote Peter III Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Jul-2006 at 14:32
My vote would have to go to Simeon for many reasons, one of them being that he was the cause of the Bulgarian golden age. During this time Bulgaria was translating classical greek texts long before many western european powers. He also threatened the stability of one of the strongest empires in Europe, the Byzantine Empire.
 
However, I'm anything but knowledgable when it comes to Bulgarian history, so I guess I'm not really one to talk.


Edited by Peter III - 15-Jul-2006 at 17:50
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  Quote Red_Lord Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jul-2006 at 13:25
It's super that we are wondering so much.Bulgars got really great rulers.
My vote goes to Boris.He just gave future to bulgarian nation.He consolidated it.So during byzantian and turkish slavery we have survived.Bulgaria was converted to Christianity,accepted slavianic face as face of state and become the first nation that broke Threelanguage law.
Boris lost all his military battle but Bulgaria win eternality.


Edited by Red_Lord - 17-Jul-2006 at 13:29
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  Quote The Chargemaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jul-2006 at 14:45
King Kaloian (1197 - 1207) was the greatest, in my opinion.
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  Quote NikeBG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2006 at 10:29
Kaloyan's my second choice. Although I like him more than Boris to some degree, because Kaloyan was good and successful both in diplomacy (negotiations with the Pope) and in warfare. But he died too early and couldn't leave such a long-lasting legacy as Boris. The finger of fate...
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  Quote Liudovik_Nemski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jan-2007 at 13:15
It's very difficult to determine one since they all led the country to great glory but in different ways-military,cultural etc...
But the greatest for me is:
His Imperial Majesty Tzar Simeon I The Great, Emperor of the Danube Bulgars




Edited by Liudovik_Nemski - 16-Feb-2007 at 16:35
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  Quote Athanasios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2007 at 18:46
Very nice pic.
 
I think that the greatest Bbulgarian ruler and warrior was Krum.Byzantium suffered devastating defeats.
Simeon was unlucky, he lost once but he lost everything...

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  Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2007 at 20:26
Originally posted by Athanasios

Simeon was unlucky, he lost once but he lost everything...
 
What do you mean by he lost everything? In any case I do not agree with you, since he was the person who created (well not himself of course) Bulgarian literary culture wich helped establishment of Bulgarian nation in sort of speak its present form. This was his "major" goal which he had very well done.
 
From modern Bulgarian rulers I would mention Boris who, majorly by dimplomacy, did everything Bulgaria not to have many losts in WWII and signifficantly succeded.
.
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  Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2007 at 20:30
I found interesting that many people in Bulgaria think that this focusing on Tzarigrad took too much resources and was the reason for next Bulgarian losts from Russians and Byzantines. I don't know. Could be true to some extent.
.
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  Quote Liudovik_Nemski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2007 at 02:06
Originally posted by Anton

I found interesting that many people in Bulgaria think that this focusing on Tzarigrad took too much resources and was the reason for next Bulgarian losts from Russians and Byzantines. I don't know. Could be true to some extent.


That's absolute nonsence if you ask me.Bulgaria was huge,it had vast resource deposits and tonns of manpower.
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c152/Liudovik/SimeonI.jpg
The light yellow territories are the ones which Simeon conquered.
It's wrong to say that the problem was that he didn't want to improve the conquered territories,it's true that they can't be fully integrated in such a short time but look at the older lands-the huge lands of the avars in the north,which Khan Krum conquered,were in the country for more than a century-it's impossible for them not to be improved and integrated.And no one can convince me that they were a useless wasteland-they cold be of great help to get men and raw materials in the battle against Kievan Rus.
The reason for the defeat by Kievan Rus was Emperor Peter-he's one of the most pathetic(jaluk) rulers the country has ever had.That's the ONLY thing that i don't like about Simeon-he coudn't find time to teach his son properly how to rule.


Edited by Liudovik_Nemski - 28-Jan-2007 at 09:00
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