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DSM explains how Xian fundimentalism is in the Amer Const |
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BattleGlory 
Knight 
Joined: 03-Aug-2004 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 71 |
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 Topic: DSM explains how Xian fundimentalism is in the Amer ConstPosted: 06-Sep-2004 at 18:10 |
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I'm very intrigued as to how you ever came up with this and the reasoning behind this, as all evidence points in the opposite direction, as well as all historians whom I've ever heard of. Also, I want to see your arguments for the Bible being the only framework for morals, as once again, it makes no logical sense at all. Lastly, I want to see your evidence to suggest that Europeans are losing their rights as Christian fundamentalism looses its hold there. I also invite any Europeans to share any first-hand horror stories about them losing their rights and freedoms. |
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~If you don't know history, you don't know anything.
~Time can change me, but I can't change time. 
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Beylerbeyi
Chieftain 
Joined: 02-Aug-2004 Location: Cuba Online Status: Offline Posts: 1355 |
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Posted: 07-Sep-2004 at 03:25 |
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Not to mention that how he believes that reaganomics worked other than eroding the real wages, causing the savings and loans debacle (cost US taxpayer $200 BILLIONS in 80s prices) and the recession in the early 90s; or that unregulated free market would solve all economic problems and supply jobs for everyone, despite the abundant proof otherwise (just read the 19th century history); or despite the overwhelming evidence, that the man-made climate change doesn't exist; or despite the lack of evidence that Iraq had WMD's and passed them to Syria or Iran... But I guess it is not that hard, after one believes that the creation myths of primitive nomadic tribes tell us the literal truth about life, the universe and everything. (FYI, the Muslim equivalent of this book-based literal approach to scripture are the Wahhabis.) Our friend DSM has parted his ways with rationality a long time ago... |
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Guests
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Posted: 07-Sep-2004 at 07:57 |
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Acually since the Christians are back in power in Holland again, Holland is most likely to reappear in the (already far too extensive) list of countries that violate human rights in the next annual Amnesty International report. |
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Cywr
King 
Retired AE Moderator Joined: 03-Aug-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 6003 |
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Posted: 07-Sep-2004 at 09:46 |
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Well, we're no longer allowed to stand up in public and shout "lets kill jews and africans". Soon we will have no freedoms whatsoever[/sarcasm]
Already has IIRC, over the whole asylum seeker thing, which the majority of the public disagreed with anyawys. Edited by Cywr |
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DSMyers1
Colonel 
Suspended Joined: 09-Aug-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 603 |
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Posted: 07-Sep-2004 at 12:17 |
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Guys, I just don't have time to go through all this...and Christian Fundamentalism is not in the American Constitution. However, the idea of inalienable rights is basic to Christianity, where each person was created by God. The Bill of Rights was added due to an outrcry over the lack of an explicit guarantee that these rights would not be violated. As for European nations--just note that the Reformation led pretty directly to the freer governments based on the equality of mankind. It took a while... Notice also that now they are progressing towards socialism, government responsibility rather than personal responsibility, and moral degredation. If the government assumes too much responsibility, hello communism! And there is no longer any moral basis to guarantee human rights. It is now just expedient to do so, based on international pressures. If it is no longer expedient, the rights will likely disappear... Edited by DSMyers1 |
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DSMyers1
Colonel
Suspended Joined: 09-Aug-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 603 |
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Posted: 07-Sep-2004 at 12:20 |
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As for Creationism, many scientists believe it, and after long study I believe it as well. It has both a Biblical and a scientific basis. If you wish, I will direct you to sites where you can study it on your own time.
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Cywr
King
Retired AE Moderator Joined: 03-Aug-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 6003 |
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Posted: 07-Sep-2004 at 17:35 |
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Which explains why the US has higher rates of drug use, higher teenage pregnancy, higher murder rates etc than most if not all European countries? As for progressing towards socialism, many European countries are cutting back the state in various areas, you may have noticed all the privatiasation that started back in the 1980s already. Welcome to 2004. |
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DSMyers1
Colonel
Suspended Joined: 09-Aug-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 603 |
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Posted: 07-Sep-2004 at 21:13 |
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Could I have your sources on those first? And I have noticed that privatization, but I don't know that it will be permanent. We'll see, anyway. |
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Cywr
King
Retired AE Moderator Joined: 03-Aug-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 6003 |
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Posted: 07-Sep-2004 at 22:07 |
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Murder rate - here
-Excluding the Ex-Sov block states (which witnessed an explosion in crime after the fall of communism), you'll notice that those oh so 'socialistic' Western European countries have lower murder rates per capita. Pregnancy rate US and Russia lead the developed world in teenage pregnancy rates -Title says it all really. Though the UK also has a very high teenage pregnancy rate, but then they are not very 'socialistic'. As for Drug use, i can't find anything that offers a good comparison of many countries, i can point out that the oh so socialistic and drug loving Netherlands has a lower rate of overal drug use than the US. There have been newspaper articles with graphs, but i'm obviously not using the right search terms with google, i'll keep trying though. http://www.cedro-uva.org/ has comparisons between the Netherlands and other countries, might have the US in there. WHat i do know for sure is that the US and the Uk have amoung the highest rates of recreational drug use in the developed world, and far from 'socialistic' fantasys and aledged imorality, i think it has a lot more to do with the fact that the US and the UK have embraced consumer culture in a big way. Not that i believe that 'progressing towards socialism' has anything to do with this or that this necessary a sign of 'moral degradation', but its nice to do a little background research before making up wacky theories and what not, afterall, one could just as easily dig out some facts and figures and claim that it is the USA that is leading the way in the moral degradation department, and, geez, i don't know, blame it on Capitalism[/sarcasm]
The EU is encouraging it, and many countries have been moving in that direction for sometime with out the EU. No offence, but you're pretty dumb if you think that most European countrie are 'progressing towards socialism', they have public funded healthcare (alongside private), and some worker regulations, and thats about it, also expect countries (such as Germany and France) to make further cutbacks as they seek to reduce government expenditure to meet EU budgetry requirements. Edited by Cywr |
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Tobodai
Tsar 
Retired AE Moderator Joined: 03-Aug-2004 Location: Antarctica Online Status: Offline Posts: 4310 |
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Posted: 07-Sep-2004 at 22:45 |
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yup, our faith bases initiatives the dont work tebd ti just make things backfire. The US, the most religious developed nation, has the most cultural problems by far. I think its because the government doesnt want to be practicalor or do the right thing, they only want t o make nonsesible ...whaoh sleepy meds startig to work, i otta sign off
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"the people are nothing but a great beast...
I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value." -Alexander Hamilton |
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Beylerbeyi
Chieftain
Joined: 02-Aug-2004 Location: Cuba Online Status: Offline Posts: 1355 |
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Posted: 08-Sep-2004 at 04:09 |
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Forcing permanent privatization on countries is not democratic (that's what America did in Iraq, for instance). If a country is democratic, no such decision should be permanent. Otherwise it is the same as forcing collectivisation like Stalin did. Anyway, Cywr is of course right; Europe is becoming more capitalistic in time. But someone who believes in fairy tales instead of science will believe in whatever he wants on this issue too, hardly surprising. |
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DSMyers1
Colonel
Suspended Joined: 09-Aug-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 603 |
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Posted: 08-Sep-2004 at 08:54 |
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Fairy tales? How much have you studied the evidence for Evolution? There is NONE! Pick any reason that you think evolution is correct, and I will rebut it. As for my beliefs, I think the logical explanation for the immense complexity of life today is a God. Evolution, despite the long ages, is still mathematically impossible as an explanation, particularly for the first life to form, but even from then on, there is no explanation for the changes in that allegedly happen, that allowed one kind of animal turn into another. So--pick a reason to believe in evolution, besides the fact you don't want to have been created by a God, and I will point out the flaws. |
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Tobodai
Tsar
Retired AE Moderator Joined: 03-Aug-2004 Location: Antarctica Online Status: Offline Posts: 4310 |
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Posted: 08-Sep-2004 at 10:47 |
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Theres no proof for god either, its not like its only a choice between a scientific theory (evolution) and some wacky religious thing. You know Osama wants creationalism taught is schools too? You guys have alot in common maybe...
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"the people are nothing but a great beast...
I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value." -Alexander Hamilton |
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JanusRook
Sultan 
Ad Maiorem Dei Gloriam Joined: 03-Aug-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2419 |
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Posted: 08-Sep-2004 at 10:57 |
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I will have to state as a believer in evolution I am appalled by people who seem to think that it's the only theory that should be taught. That's just as bad as those "creationists" who thought evolution shouldn't have been taught. I have heard some creationists talk and they have very valid points and arguments. Some of which I couldn't refute. However based on what I've heard from both theories (does anyone know if there are more?) I still have to side with evolution, because I believe that God shouldn't have proof in his existance because they would eliminate the need for faith.
Oh and aren't evolution and creationism basically the same thing. You start with nothing to get living things......... |
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Economic Communist, Political Progressive, Social Conservative.
Unless otherwise noted source is wiki. |
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Cywr
King
Retired AE Moderator Joined: 03-Aug-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 6003 |
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Posted: 08-Sep-2004 at 11:14 |
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What never ceases to amaze me is how the creationist crowd continuosly
bring up the 'they beleive in evolution because they don't want to
believe in god crap', as if this was the only possible motivation.
That many people both believe in god and accept evolution as a viable theory surely can't be allowed to get in the way of this delusion. |
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Guests
Guest
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Posted: 08-Sep-2004 at 11:49 |
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yes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamarckism |
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JanusRook
Sultan
Ad Maiorem Dei Gloriam Joined: 03-Aug-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2419 |
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Posted: 08-Sep-2004 at 13:38 |
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Ahh yes good old Lamarck, I thought his science was disproven but I appear to be wrong. From what I've read there is some good points. Still I think evolution trumps everything..............Although wouldn't it be funny if evolution, creationism and Lamarckism were all responsible for the creation and propagation of life. |
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Economic Communist, Political Progressive, Social Conservative.
Unless otherwise noted source is wiki. |
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BattleGlory
Knight
Joined: 03-Aug-2004 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 71 |
Quote Reply
Posted: 08-Sep-2004 at 13:57 |
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That is a complete non sequituur. It doesn't logically follow that because two documents share one similar doctrine that one is derived from the other.
Communism is necessarily a bad thing why?
For one thing, you confuse abiogenesis with evolution. Abiogenesis is not a pre-requisite for evolution. Evolution would still happen even if a god or gods were to create the world in the manner that it is. If you're going to try to refute evolution with macro/micro-evolution or the commonly misapplied 2nd law of thermodynamics then you might as well not bother. Neither are real science. |
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~If you don't know history, you don't know anything.
~Time can change me, but I can't change time.
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DSMyers1
Colonel
Suspended Joined: 09-Aug-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 603 |
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Posted: 08-Sep-2004 at 14:26 |
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Okay, sorry I brought that up. |
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DSMyers1
Colonel
Suspended Joined: 09-Aug-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 603 |
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Posted: 08-Sep-2004 at 14:29 |
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Thanks for your non-aggressive position! Well--yeah, they do, but in one God makes all life, in the othe Chance makes all life. Since I see much evidence that things have not happened by Chance, I'll go with God. However, I must say that I would go with the Bible's account of Creation even if science showed every evidence to the contrary. |
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