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Ever wondered how Farsi sounds like to non-farsi speakers?
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Kamran the Great View Drop Down
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Posts: 10 		  Quote Kamran the Great Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Ever wondered how Farsi sounds like to non-farsi speakers?
    Posted: 31-May-2010 at 19:54

not to drag this discussion out of proportion, Shield, but are you saying that if i said to an English-speaking person "i speak svenska" or, talking to a Persian, told them that "man deutsch sohbat nemikonam" (you do appear to know Persian) ... that is absolutely fine? even though neither of them might have the slightest clue what i'm going on about??

don't any of those two sentences sound odd?
 
I respect your opinion, but am entitled to my own and rest my case.
 
 
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Posts: 357 		  Quote Shield-of-Dardania Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2010 at 20:08
Just to drag it a bit further ...Approve
 
"I speak Svenska" would be perfectly alright. The man listening would then ask, "Excuse me?". Then you could answer, "Svenska is Swedish for ... well ... Swedish." Then he would say something like, "Oh! I see. That's amazing! Well, learn something every day."
 
It would have made for an even better and richer conversation.
 
Equally so, "Ich sprechen Parsi" would be fine too.


Edited by Shield-of-Dardania - 31-May-2010 at 20:12
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Posts: 10 		  Quote Kamran the Great Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2010 at 20:39
Originally posted by Shield-of-Dardania

Just to drag it a bit further ...Approve
 
"I speak Svenska" would be perfectly alright. The man listening would then ask, "Excuse me?". Then you could answer, "Svenska is Swedish for ... well ... Swedish." Then he would say something like, "Oh! I see. That's amazing! Well, learn something every day."
 
It would have made for an even better and richer conversation.
 
Equally so, "Ich sprechen Parsi" would be fine too.
to drag the conversation a bit more, even ...
i think "the man listening", after the speaker's explanation about what svenska means, might say "Oh! I see. Why on earth are you using Swedish words when speaking in English??" (scratches head)
 
lol ... i'm usually not a "dragger" ... i can already see that none of us will accept the reasonings of the other, but that's perfectly fine! it's an interesting discussion, anyway.


Edited by Kamran the Great - 31-May-2010 at 20:47
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Posts: 111 		  Quote Putty19 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2010 at 20:50
Originally posted by Ince

Originally posted by Putty19

Originally posted by Ince

Originally posted by Putty19

I think Persian is a beautiful language, unfortunately it borrows too much from Arabic which takes away from its beauty I believe, Kurdish sounds a little harsher but it seems that it borrows less from Arabic, at least that's how I hear it.

I find Eastern Iranian languages more beautiful and pure, here's a clip of Pamiri in Tajikistan:





How much does Persian borrow from Arabic? I don't notice much at all, apart from the Islamic words.   Most of the Arabic words in Kurdish are from Islam.  I do not think Persian sounds like Arabic as well.

 


I don't speak Persian to know how much it borrows, but I do know Arabic and I hear it quite often in Persin and Kurdish as well, not so much in the Eastern Iranian languages however.

I guess Islam is the reason for that since I hear a lot of Arabic in Urdu as well (Which probably traveled through the Persian).


It could be that those words that are similar to Persian/Kurdish are in infact Iranian in origin.  I know a couple of Algerians and they speak Arabic around me alot and I cannot pick up any words that are similar to Kurdish at all.  I can pick some that are similar to Turkish.

Also maybe Arabic spoken in Iraq has Persian influence?


No, most of those words are not Iranian, they're Arabic, the Iranian populations borrowed these words during the expansion of Islam, also you did not understand the Algerians because their Arabic is not that pure, heck I speak fluent Arabic and I don't even understand them, half of what they say is like in French so their Arabic dialect is very non-Arabic like.

As far as the Iraqi Arabic, yes it borrows a lot of words from Persian and Turkish as well, so there's an influence there, but the Arabic influence in Persian is far greater than the Persian influence in Iraqi Arabic, and once again that falls back on the expansion of Islam.
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Posts: 357 		  Quote Shield-of-Dardania Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2010 at 21:05
Originally posted by Kamran the Great

to drag the conversation a bit more, even ...
i think "the man listening", after the speaker's explanation about what svenska means, might say "Oh! I see. Why on earth are you using Swedish words when speaking in English??" (scratches head)
Then the man answering could say, "Why on earth not? When so many Englishmen use so many English words when speaking in Svenska."Big smile
 
BTW, 'Swedish' is not an English 'word' in the truest sense of the word. It is, merely, an English translation for 'Svenska' (the Swedish language) and other Swedish things. Similarly for 'Persian'.Approve
 
One musn't feel that, I think, English is like the 'Shah', let alone 'Shah-en-Shah', of all languages in the world. We only use it relatively more often - compared to other languages - because it's better understood by many more people all over the world. That is all.
 


Edited by Shield-of-Dardania - 31-May-2010 at 21:17
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Posts: 10 		  Quote Kamran the Great Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2010 at 21:13
Originally posted by Shield-of-Dardania

Originally posted by Kamran the Great

to drag the conversation a bit more, even ...
i think "the man listening", after the speaker's explanation about what svenska means, might say "Oh! I see. Why on earth are you using Swedish words when speaking in English??" (scratches head)
Then the man answering could say, "Why on earth not? When so many Englishmen use so many English words when speaking in Svenska."Big smile
 
BTW, 'Swedish' is not an English 'word' in the truest sense of the word. It is, merely, an English translation for 'Svenska' (the Swedish language) and other Swedish things. Similarly for 'Persian'.
 
the skeletons of those two men were found hundreds of years later, clutching at one another's hair as if in a long-lasting and, apparently, never-ending, "discussion" :))
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Posts: 357 		  Quote Shield-of-Dardania Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-May-2010 at 21:19
Clutching at each other's hair? Good Lord! Then it must've been 2 women.Approve

Edited by Shield-of-Dardania - 31-May-2010 at 21:21
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Posts: 550 		  Quote Ince Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jun-2010 at 16:11
Originally posted by Putty19

Originally posted by Ince

Originally posted by Putty19

Originally posted by Ince

Originally posted by Putty19

I think Persian is a beautiful language, unfortunately it borrows too much from Arabic which takes away from its beauty I believe, Kurdish sounds a little harsher but it seems that it borrows less from Arabic, at least that's how I hear it.

I find Eastern Iranian languages more beautiful and pure, here's a clip of Pamiri in Tajikistan:





How much does Persian borrow from Arabic? I don't notice much at all, apart from the Islamic words.   Most of the Arabic words in Kurdish are from Islam.  I do not think Persian sounds like Arabic as well.

 


I don't speak Persian to know how much it borrows, but I do know Arabic and I hear it quite often in Persin and Kurdish as well, not so much in the Eastern Iranian languages however.

I guess Islam is the reason for that since I hear a lot of Arabic in Urdu as well (Which probably traveled through the Persian).


It could be that those words that are similar to Persian/Kurdish are in infact Iranian in origin.  I know a couple of Algerians and they speak Arabic around me alot and I cannot pick up any words that are similar to Kurdish at all.  I can pick some that are similar to Turkish.

Also maybe Arabic spoken in Iraq has Persian influence?


No, most of those words are not Iranian, they're Arabic, the Iranian populations borrowed these words during the expansion of Islam, also you did not understand the Algerians because their Arabic is not that pure, heck I speak fluent Arabic and I don't even understand them, half of what they say is like in French so their Arabic dialect is very non-Arabic like.

As far as the Iraqi Arabic, yes it borrows a lot of words from Persian and Turkish as well, so there's an influence there, but the Arabic influence in Persian is far greater than the Persian influence in Iraqi Arabic, and once again that falls back on the expansion of Islam.


Did not know that Arabic spoken in Algeria was different to others.  I also noticed that Algerian Arabic sounds also like Berber which was what people in Algeria spoke before the Arabs came.

The main Kurdish dialect spoken in Iraq is Sorani, which might have some Arabic influence other then Islam.  As for Kurmanji I know that words like Dunya,Hayat,Haywan might be Arabic in origin most likely do to Islam.

I noticed that Farsi uses Esmeh for name whch might be Arabic in origin.  Kurds and other Iranains use Nav/Nam.


Edited by Ince - 01-Jun-2010 at 16:13
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Posts: 224 		  Quote Xorto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jun-2010 at 02:43
it sounds for me a bit too soft if you understand what i meanLOL but it is a nice language the problem is they have many loanwords which don´t fit in their language.
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Posts: 111 		  Quote Putty19 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Jun-2010 at 11:01
Originally posted by Ince

 
Did not know that Arabic spoken in Algeria was different to others.  I also noticed that Algerian Arabic sounds also like Berber which was what people in Algeria spoke before the Arabs came.

The main Kurdish dialect spoken in Iraq is Sorani, which might have some Arabic influence other then Islam.  As for Kurmanji I know that words like Dunya,Hayat,Haywan might be Arabic in origin most likely do to Islam.

I noticed that Farsi uses Esmeh for name whch might be Arabic in origin.  Kurds and other Iranains use Nav/Nam.

Absolutely, Algerian, Moroccan, and Tunisian to an extent are all a mix of Arabic/Berber along with French and Spanish, I would put them on the same level as Maltese as far as distance (Maltese is also a Semitic language that borrows a lot from Arabic and has an Italian influence in it), the thing is for other Arabs to understand Algerians/Moroccans/Tunisians, classical Arabic needs to be used, but if I spoke to any other Arab using my dialect and they use their dialects, it should be ok.

As far as Sorani goes, I actually had a Kurdish friend from Duhok and his family speaks Bedani (Kurmanji), he says Sorani is so far from them that it might as well be considered a whole separate language, either way they both borrow quite a bit from Arabic and usually those words are mostly Islam related, so it's understandable I guess.

In Iraqi Arabic you have many foreign Iranian words that are used, I'll try to find a list but some of them are very obvious, I would also say in my native tongue (Assyrian) we also have many Iranian words, just as much as Iraqi Arabic, of course people don't realize this but Assyrian was the main language in the region and was spoken by all in the area, some of these people were also Iranians and some were Christians before the arrival of Islam, so in our modern Assyrian community I would not be surprised if we have some Iranian ancestors.
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Posts: 550 		  Quote Ince Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jun-2010 at 06:38
Originally posted by Putty19

Originally posted by Ince

 
Did not know that Arabic spoken in Algeria was different to others.  I also noticed that Algerian Arabic sounds also like Berber which was what people in Algeria spoke before the Arabs came.

The main Kurdish dialect spoken in Iraq is Sorani, which might have some Arabic influence other then Islam.  As for Kurmanji I know that words like Dunya,Hayat,Haywan might be Arabic in origin most likely do to Islam.

I noticed that Farsi uses Esmeh for name whch might be Arabic in origin.  Kurds and other Iranains use Nav/Nam.

Absolutely, Algerian, Moroccan, and Tunisian to an extent are all a mix of Arabic/Berber along with French and Spanish, I would put them on the same level as Maltese as far as distance (Maltese is also a Semitic language that borrows a lot from Arabic and has an Italian influence in it), the thing is for other Arabs to understand Algerians/Moroccans/Tunisians, classical Arabic needs to be used, but if I spoke to any other Arab using my dialect and they use their dialects, it should be ok.

As far as Sorani goes, I actually had a Kurdish friend from Duhok and his family speaks Bedani (Kurmanji), he says Sorani is so far from them that it might as well be considered a whole separate language, either way they both borrow quite a bit from Arabic and usually those words are mostly Islam related, so it's understandable I guess.

In Iraqi Arabic you have many foreign Iranian words that are used, I'll try to find a list but some of them are very obvious, I would also say in my native tongue (Assyrian) we also have many Iranian words, just as much as Iraqi Arabic, of course people don't realize this but Assyrian was the main language in the region and was spoken by all in the area, some of these people were also Iranians and some were Christians before the arrival of Islam, so in our modern Assyrian community I would not be surprised if we have some Iranian ancestors.


I don't think it Sorani does not have major difference to Kurmanji.  They are very similar and it is believed Sorani is offshoot of Kurmanji that had other influences over time from Gorani and other NW dialects.  When you combine both languages, it gets even more closer to Persian, specialy Tajik.
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Posts: 357 		  Quote Shield-of-Dardania Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jun-2010 at 10:46
I met a Tajik girl once before. I think she was a tourist. She was extremely beautiful. Tall and long limbed, almost 6 ft tall, I think, with long black hair, light brown eyes, very fair skin.
 
Features like Northern Indian or Persian, but striking and very goodlooking. Very above average, like. I should have asked to take a pic of her, but I didn't. Silly me.


Edited by Shield-of-Dardania - 04-Jun-2010 at 11:00
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