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Dialects

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Feramez View Drop Down
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  Quote Feramez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Dialects
    Posted: 18-Aug-2005 at 23:45
How do so many different dialects form from one language?
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Maju View Drop Down
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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2005 at 00:16
Guess that people in their villages and districts tend to innovate and create new forms of speak... a language is not an static thing: it's alive and changes as it's talked. In many cases also, languages have been imposed to peoples that originally spoke another different language and thaye may logically have added their own "creole" way of speaking it. 

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  Quote ArmenianSurvival Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2005 at 00:41
Geography also plays an important role in the formation of new dialects. Geographic barriers can keep foreign influence from leaking into a language, but it can also keep the language from progressing, and have it develop into a dialect that is "inferior" to people who speak the same language but speak the 'city dialect', for example. Extreme outside influence and also extreme isolation, in my opinion, are not good for most languages. But i mean, it doesnt really make a difference as long as the person understands you...i like when languages have more dialects, it gives it more character.

Also as Maju pointed out, slang words that become popular in use may eventually become part of the official language, and even if they dont, it doesnt stop most people from using it.

Originally posted by Maju

In many cases also, languages have been imposed to peoples that originally spoke another different language and thaye may logically have added their own "creole" way of speaking it.


This is also a prevailing theme in many present-day dialects. Armenian for example, now has more Russian and European influence on its language because of the Soviet Union. Karabagh Armenians also use a lot of Russian words, as well as their own local slangs, which comes from isolation in the mountains. I speak the Western Armenian dialect, but i can go to Armenia (eastern dialect) and understand 95-99% of the words they use. In Karabagh, where they have their own dialects, i can understand some dialects almost entirely, and some i can only understand about 60% of what they say. This is mainly from using Russian words, and also from them having their own local twists on Russian words.

Also, the Armenian language added 2 letters to its alphabet during  the Medieval age because they were in close contact with Europeans for the better part of 3 centuries. This was mainly due to their geographic location, which at that time was the coast of the Medterannean Sea in Cilicia. The letters "O" and "F" were added to the alphabet. Thats just one example of geographic influence on language.


Edited by ArmenianSurvival
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  Quote Afghanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2005 at 03:23

Originally posted by Feramez

How do so many different dialects form from one language?

I think geographical boundaries, and sometimes socio-political boundaries. 

Apparently one theory about Iranian languages, specifically Eastern Iranian, is that all Eastern Iranian languages were derivatives of dialects of Avestan, that progressed into their own languages eventually.

Also it can be influenced by other languages.  Eastern Iranian is influenced by the Indian subcontinent, and has borrowed retroflexes from Dardic and other languages of the subcontinent. 

Dari in Afghanistan has many different dialects spoken by different people.  The Mongoloid Hazaras speak a local dialect known as "Hazaragi" it incorporates some Mongolian traits, and even some Mongolian words.  Kandahari Farsi speakers have incorporated Pashto accents, and their dialect incorporates some Pashto words and sentence constructs.  If you take all of these different dialects (and there are probably over 50 more dialects within Afghanistan itself) isolate them, and you will see that after a few centuries theyll be even more different.

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  Quote Feramez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2005 at 10:39
I always figured it had a lot to do with geographical locations and relations with foreigners.  I wanted to hear others views, but how would a language change so much over the years while isolated from most foreign groups?  That's one thing I never understood about language, how can it change without any outside influence?
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  Quote Tangriberdi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2005 at 10:54

Originally posted by Feramez

I always figured it had a lot to do with geographical locations and relations with foreigners.  I wanted to hear others views, but how would a language change so much over the years while isolated from most foreign groups?  That's one thing I never understood about language, how can it change without any outside influence?

That explains how Turkish word oghlan, boy, becomes to mean faggot, That is how a language changes without forein influence. another example for it word Anne , originally Ana sounding a harsh word for Istanbulite Turkish. It preserves its meaning however, changed phonetically. And this change was in a really short period of time: One year.

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  Quote Afghanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2005 at 11:43

Originally posted by Feramez

I always figured it had a lot to do with geographical locations and relations with foreigners.  I wanted to hear others views, but how would a language change so much over the years while isolated from most foreign groups?  That's one thing I never understood about language, how can it change without any outside influence?

Well for one certain sayings may have different meanings to certain people.  That traight was favorable and hence it stuck.  Also some people have speech impediments and behaviors that if left unchecked (ie. isolated) it can grow into a new accent.

Have you ever noticed how children sometimes appear to have the same accent as their parents?   Every inch of knowledge that their parents knew is passed to their children, and through every generation there is loss of knowledge (unless it is written).   

This might also have to do with the written language.  Most Eastern Iranian languages in their early history , did not have a written language, so many old ways of pronouncing or constructing sentences dissapeared and replaced with newer innovations.

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  Quote Afghanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2005 at 11:47
Originally posted by Tangriberdi

That explains how Turkish word oghlan, boy, becomes to mean faggot, That is how a language changes without forein influence.

I've noticed that also in Persian spoken in Afghanistan and Persian spoken in Ordo.  The word "kambakht" in Afghan Persian means someone who is with bad luck, or someone to feel sorry for.  In Ordo, the meaning simply means - retarded and is used to offend someone.

Although they are similar the word itself changed its meaning.

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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2005 at 17:52
Originally posted by Feramez

I always figured it had a lot to do with geographical locations and relations with foreigners.  I wanted to hear others views, but how would a language change so much over the years while isolated from most foreign groups?  That's one thing I never understood about language, how can it change without any outside influence?


I suspect that isolate languages (without foreign influences) rather tend to evolve more slowly, as there are less innovative inputs that would cause change.

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