Tamil Origins

While it seems pretty clear that Elamite is linked to Dravidian languages, included Tamil, that article is an awful mixture of (few) science and (much) blah-blah.

It's likely that Dravidian-speakers occupied in ancient times the area between Elam and Gujarat, and it's likely that the civilization of the Indus was also of Dravidian language, which, according to most common hypothesis, expanded southward while Indo-Iranian tongues substituted them in the north.

It is not likely that either Elamites or Indus' people were as much dark skinned as modern dravidians (based in their iconography) but Australo-Dravidian types are also shown in Indus culture iconography. Still most of the types depicted seem typical Mediterranean, much as Sumerians or Elamites themselves.

It's the first time that I read that ancient Egyptian is linked to Elam... the language seems quite clearly to belong to the Hamitic group of Afroasian family.

Wow! They do look Dravidian in the modern "racial" sense of the world. It seems that I could have been mislead by Eurocentric viewpoints.

Very interesting!

Indus Civilisation

The Tamils are an ancient people. Their history had its beginnings in the rich alluvial plains near the southern extremity of peninsular India which included the land mass known as the island of Sri Lanka today. The island's plant and animal life (including the presence of elephants) evidence the earlier land connection with the Indian sub continent. So too do satellite photographs which show the submerged 'land bridge' between Dhanuskodi on the south east of the Indian sub-continent and Mannar in the north west of the island.

Some researchers have concluded that it was during the period 6000 B.C. to 3000 B.C. that the island separated from the Indian sub continent and the narrow strip of shallow water known today as the Palk Straits came into existence. Many Tamils trace their origins to the people of Mohenjodaro in the Indus Valley around 6000 years before the birth of Christ.  There is, however, a need for further systematic study of the history of the early Tamils and proto Tamils.

"Dravidians, whose descendents still live in Southern India, established the first city communities, in the Indus valley, introduced irrigation schemes, developed pottery and evolved a well ordered system of government." (Reader's Digest Great World Atlas, 1970)

Clyde Ahmad Winters, who has written extensively on Dravidian origins commented:

"Archaeological and linguistic evidence indicates that the Dravidians were the founders of the Harappan culture which extended from the Indus Valley through northeastern Afghanistan, on into Turkestan. The Harappan civilization existed from 2600-1700 BC. The Harappan civilization was twice the size the Old Kingdom of Egypt. In addition to trade relations with Mesopotamia and Iran, the Harappan city states also had active trade relations with the Central Asian peoples."

He has also explored the question whether the Dravidians were of African origin. (Winters,Clyde Ahmad, "Are Dravidians of African Origin", P.Second ISAS,1980 - Hong Kong:Asian Research Service, 1981 -  pages 789- 807)

Other useful web pages on the Indus civilisation (suggested by Dr.Jude Sooriyajeevan  of the National Research Council, Canada)  include the Indus Dictionary.

At the same time, the Aryan/Dravidian divide in India and the 'Aryan Invasion Theory' itself has come under  attack by some modern day historians. (see also Sarasvati-Sindhu civilisation; 'Hinduism: Native or Alien to India') 

Professor Klaus Klostermaier in 'Questioning the Aryan Invasion Theory and Revising Ancient Indian History' commented: 

"India had a tradition of learning and scholarship much older and vaster than the European countries that, from the sixteenth century onwards, became its political masters. Indian scholars are rewriting the history of India today.One of the major points of revision concerns the so called 'Aryan invasion theory', often referred to as 'colonial-missionary', implying that it was the brainchild of conquerors of foreign colonies who could not but imagine that all higher culture had to come from outside 'backward' India, and who likewise assumed that a religion could only spread through a politically supported missionary effort.

While not buying into the more sinister version of this revision, which accuses the inventors of the Aryan invasion theory of malice and cynicism, there is no doubt that early European attempts to explain the presence of Indians in India had much to with the commonly held Biblical belief that humankind originated from one pair of humans- Adam and Eve to be precise ..."

Hinduism Today concluded in Rewriting Indian History - Hindu Timeline:

"Although lacking supporting scientific evidence, this (Aryan Invasion) theory, and the alleged Aryan-Dravidian racial split, was accepted and promulgated as fact for three main reasons. It provided a convenient precedent for Christian British subjugation of India. It reconciled ancient Indian civilisation and religious scripture with the 4000 bce Biblical date of Creation. It created division and conflict between the peoples of India, making them vulnerable to conversion by Christian missionaries."

"Scholars today of both East and West believe the Rig Veda people who called themselves Aryan were indigenous to India, and there never was an Aryan invasion. The languages of India have been shown to share common ancestry in ancient Sanskrit and Tamil. Even these two apparently unrelated languages, according to current "super-family" research, have a common origin: an ancient language dubbed Nostratic." 

http://www.tamilnation.org/heritage/

I think there is still a large Elamite population in the south west of Iran but they are known as Arabs because they mostly speak Arabic!

If Tamil epic such  as Silapadikaram and Mani Mekhalai are considered as samgam literature, then according to Tamil Tradition, the Tamils originally came from a submerged island Kumarikhandam in the South of India.

More details are available in the following site about India's connection:

Do not worry, We Indians never rob heritage of any, that too you "Native Americans".

I know that wikipedia is not so reliable but this is what I found in it. Elamite language may or may not be connected to the Dravidian language family.


A quote from wikipedia
    A few scholars incorporate the Dravidian languages into a larger Elamo-Dravidian language family, which includes the ancient Elamite language of what is now southwestern Iran. However, this is not accepted by most linguists.
   

Since I am not a scholar , I have no personal opinion on this matter . Which one is more likely ?
1, Elamite and Tamil languages are from the same language family.
2, They are not from the same family.

My best friend is from khuzestan. He always says that a typical Khuzestani person is very tall , skinny and with very small head and face. Does this correspond with Elamite racial type?

P.S Syrus Shahmiri , I can not see the picture of the guide from Susa that you posted . Is there any way I can see it ?


    
    
    
    
    
    
    

Edited by omshanti - 05-Dec-2006 at 04:50

We like your people, by whatever name you want to call.

Paul's comments are interesting, but he has to give evidences for the following:

1. "When you look at the great civilisations and structures of India, the Maurya Empire, the Dravidians, Brihadeeswarar and Srirangam, don't you find it hard to believe Indians were capable of all these developments themselves without being taught to do it by an outside more advanced civilisation".