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Who is greater then Cyrus the Great?

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  Quote Dari Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Who is greater then Cyrus the Great?
    Posted: 06-Sep-2004 at 02:09

I've been raking my brain for the past few days thinking of contemparies in terms of military greatness as well as other factors (excluding economic prosperity) in history that can match Cyrus II's accomplishments.

My list goes as -

...No one except Khosrow Parviz and Khosrow Anushurivan. I really can't think of anyone who is considered so honored by the world and at the same time be one of the greatest warriors/generals of all time.



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  Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Sep-2004 at 05:02
"..considered so honoured..."? Considering the fact that hardly anyone in the world outside Iran has even heard of any of those I tend to disagree...

Edited by Styrbiorn
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Sep-2004 at 09:37
Styrbiorn, Do you know Sons Of Cyrus?
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  Quote Imperatore Dario I Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Sep-2004 at 10:28

Darius I ("The Great") was the best Persian king of all time!


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  Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Sep-2004 at 11:40
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

<SPAN =bold>Styrbiorn, </SPAN>Do you know Sons Of Cyrus?

Why do you ask? Just because some punkers choose a random name from a history book that would look good with "Sons of-" doesn't make that character honoured around the world. Not that I want to sound demeaning, but let's face it: Cyrus and the Kosrovs aren't really well-known persons, so to speak. I mentioned Cyrus to a fellow students some month ago - don't remember why - and nobody had any idea who he was (they do now though ), and these persons were on the upper end of the knowledge-rank. I'll leave though, and let you battle it out, these kiind of threads is not my cup of tea.

Edited by Styrbiorn
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  Quote Imperator Invictus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Sep-2004 at 11:50
I think Cyrus and Darius are well-known people. At least the cirriculum in secondary schools here have them in. Kosrovs and the Sassanids are much less studied in general world history here, howerver.
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  Quote Dari Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Sep-2004 at 13:12

Originally posted by Styrbiorn

"..considered so honoured..."? Considering the fact that hardly anyone in the world outside Iran has even heard of any of those I tend to disagree...

 

Everyone in America knows Cyrus and the Persians quiet well. So you shouldn't speak when you know nothing of the rest of the world.



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  Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Sep-2004 at 13:30

Originally posted by Dari

So you shouldn't speak when you know nothing of the rest of the world.

"Everyone in America?" Don't accuse me of making ludicrous assumptions...

This is silly. Do you seriously believe Kosrov X is "honoured" - or even known - in most of the world? I can with large safety-margin say that the vast majority of Europeans have never heard of either of those two. If you want to believe, please do, but don't reply since I'm retreating now.

Why don't you try go out in the street there in the UK and ask the question. I'll do the same here, with all the exchange students around, and we'll see the result. Edit: nah, don't bother, it's such a silly issue to waste time on.

 



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  Quote ArmenianSurvival Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Sep-2004 at 15:04
I mean, judging from the people ive seen, besides the older generations, i dont think too many people know anyone from Persian history outside of Cyrus, Darius and Xerxes...if that. They definitely dont know who Khosrow Parviz and Khosrow Anushurivan are. Its like me going up to an Arab and talking about Vartan Mamikonian from Armenian history. He fought against the Persians in the first ever defense of Christianity and im pretty certain 99.99% of Persians have no idea who he is, let alone anyone else in the world.
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Sep-2004 at 15:16

I think the lack of historical knowledge is something else, I'm sure that many peoples in Iran also even don't know that Cyrus the Great was an Achaemenid king! Some days ago my friend who is a software engineer asked me "Was Cyrus a Muslim?"

If american don't know Cyrus the Great but they at least know one of these Cyruses:

Cyrus Vance
in full CYRUS ROBERTS VANCE, American lawyer and public official who was secretary of state from 1977 to 1980 during the administration of President Jimmy Carter.

Cyrus S. Eaton
in full CYRUS STEPHEN EATON, U.S.-Canadian industrialist and philanthropist, founder of the Republic Steel Corporation (1930).

Cyrus Edwin Dallin
American sculptor, best known for equestrian portraits of American Indians.

Cyrus James Moore
United States Marine WW-II

Cyrus Hall McCormick
American industrialist and inventor who is generally credited with the development (from 1831) of the mechanical reaper.

Cyrus Field
U.S. financier noted for the success of the first transatlantic cable. He was the younger brother of the law reformer David Dudley Field and of U.S. Supreme Court Justice Stephen J. Field.

Cyrus A. Bartol
in full CYRUS AUGUSTUS BARTOL, was a Unitarian minister, author, and member of the Transcendental Club.

Cyrus Hermann Kotzschmar Curtis
Publisher who established a journalistic empire in Philadelphia.

Cyrus Cassells
American Poet who is the recipient of a 1995 Pushcart Prize, the Peter I.B. Lavan Younger Poets Award, and fellowships from the Lannan Foundation, the Rockefeller Foundation, and the National Endowment for the Arts.

Cyrus Read Teed
Also known as Koresh, proclaimed himself to be the "seventh messenger of God,"24 adopted Koresh as his new surname, and set up religious communes, first in Illinois and then in Florida.

Cyrus Adler
scholar, educator, editor, and Conservative Jewish leader who had great influence on American Jewish life in his time.



Edited by Cyrus Shahmiri
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  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Sep-2004 at 15:22
They're more likely to know of Cyrus the Virus from Con Air than half those me thinks.
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  Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Sep-2004 at 15:23
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

I think thelack of historical knowledge is something else, I'm sure that many peoples in Iran alsoeven don't know that Cyrus the Great was an Achaemenid king! Some days ago my friend who is a software engineer asked me "Was Cyrus a Muslim?"



Exactly. History is hardly a subject many people are well-bewandered in.
ArmenianSurvival did mentioned a Persian that probably quite a few people have heard about in Europe - Xerxes.
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  Quote Cywr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Sep-2004 at 15:29
I think it really depends on where you are, its not like education is uniform around Europe.
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  Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Sep-2004 at 15:46
Originally posted by Cywr

I think it really depends on where you are, its not like education is uniform around Europe.

Obviously yes, but you can really only use generalizing terms in a discussion as this anyway.
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  Quote BattleGlory Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Sep-2004 at 18:20

They're more likely to know of Cyrus the Virus from Con Air than half those me thinks.

You speak the truth, though even this Cyrus is rather unknown.  To say otherwise would be to delude yourself.

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  Quote TMPikachu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Sep-2004 at 19:24
Originally posted by Dari

I've been raking my brain for the past few days thinking of contemparies in terms of military greatness as well as other factors (excluding economic prosperity) in history that can match Cyrus II's accomplishments.

Ghengis Khan and Kublai Khan.

Temujin (who would gain the title of Ghengis Khan)was not born into greatness. Though the son of a chief, his father was assassinated, his family cast out. He was forced to scrounge for berries and rodents to survive. The boy with knees and hands to the dirt would become the man who would bring into creation the largest land empire ever known in history (conquoring even the mighty Persian and Chinese Empires)

Ghengis Khan, like all Mongols, was religiously tolerant. He was also an equal oppertunity employer who cared not for race (only loyalty).

Kublia ran a welfare system for people who could not work to live (such as families who have lost sons/husbands/fathers). Plus ruling the world's largest Empire.

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  Quote Abyssmal Fiend Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Sep-2004 at 19:53
Alexander the Great!
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  Quote ArmenianSurvival Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Sep-2004 at 20:26

Allah oo akbar...God is greater than Cyrus the Great!

On a serious note, its hard to measure the greatness of people. The things that people do have different meanings and outcomes for different people. Some would argue being a soldier is more noble because certain people would be afraid to go out into battle and risk their hides. Some would argue being a leader is more noble because some people are afraid to make decisions that impact so many people. The people that have done both, are afraid to be average. I think that is the first criteria and one of the characteristics of being great.

The second criteria is how effectively they did those two things. Great soldiers and generals arent always great leaders, and great leaders arent always great generals. Those who do both very well are great.

The third and most important criteria is WHY they choose to do these things. If they want fame and fortune for themselves, they are no more noble than the common man. If they do it for the greater good of their people, i.e. helping their country out in a time of dismay, sacrificing themselves, then they are great. If they do it simply to conquer more lands and win their place in history, they are no different than any of us here in the forum. Its difficult situations and circumstances that call on great people.

But, a lot of the time great talent outweighs great intentions.

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  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Sep-2004 at 22:14
the man with the greatest mind was Benjamin Franklin, but the man with the msot far reaching of accomplishments I would say could very wel lbe Cyrus the Great
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I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value."
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  Quote ihsan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Sep-2004 at 10:19

I've been raking my brain for the past few days thinking of contemparies in terms of military greatness as well as other factors (excluding economic prosperity) in history that can match Cyrus II's accomplishments.

Keep thinking, maybe you will find the Secret of Universe

Temujin (who would gain the title of Ghengis Khan)

He never got the title "Genghis Khan" (such a title doesn't exist), I think you mean Chinggis Kha'an (I just hate historicially inaccurate names).

(conquoring even the mighty Persian and Chinese Empires)

There were no "Persian" and "Chinese" empires during Chinggis Kha'an's life. Transoxiana, Afghanistan and most of Iran was ruled by the Khrezm-Shh Dynasty which was ruled by a Turkoman elite (and had an army consisted largely of Qpchaqs and Qals). OTOH, China was divided between three states: Southern Song, Jin and Xixia. Chinggis Kha'an defeated and vassalised the Xixia, defeated the Jin (but never conquered it totally), later ordered the total destruction of Xixia near his death but never fought the Song (the Mongols were allied with the Song before the final destruction of Jin).



Edited by ihsan
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