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Baldwin IV - a little-known hero

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  Quote Joinville Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Baldwin IV - a little-known hero
    Posted: 26-Feb-2007 at 03:00
Originally posted by duchess


Originally posted by TEMPLARIO

<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span style="" lang="EN-GB"><font face="Times New Roman">The entire Story of the Latin Kingdom of Jerusaln is the story of the war between 2 families (that, perhaps were relatives) Welfs and Ibelins. There is a dirty story in all that, morganatic marriages, infidelity, murders and more exactly like a TV-soup, but the funny thing is that this Tv-soup was real and affected our history.<o:p></o:p></span>

can u tell me where i can find the entire story of the Latin kingdom of Jerusalem and its 100 years of Frankish rule? pretty pretty please Big%20smile

This might do it:
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/sbook1k.html

The real classic is the chronicle of William of Tyre, but it might not be available in English.
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  Quote Melisende Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Feb-2007 at 03:18
Originally posted by duchess

 i also really wanted to ask you guys for help in finding a good resourceful book...something close in style to Alison weirs books
 
Despite the known errors, I still think Runciman is a good starting point,  following by Tom Ashbridge.
 
However, I would put neither of them in the same class as Weir, whose works I find very are often flawed, and in one instance, gratuitously fabricated.
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  Quote Crusader3943 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Mar-2007 at 08:00
Balwin IV truly was a great hero of the Crusaders. He had the horrible affliction of leprosy, had traitors all around him, and had a massive empire to control and defend by himself. He also saved Jerusalem from a massive Turkish army by charging into the enemy hordes with a handful of knights. He's awesome!

Read Crusader King by Susan Peek.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Mar-2007 at 11:36
Originally posted by Crusader3943

Balwin IV truly was a great hero of the Crusaders. He had the horrible affliction of leprosy, had traitors all around him, and had a massive empire to control and defend by himself. He also saved Jerusalem from a massive Turkish army by charging into the enemy hordes with a handful of knights. He's awesome!

Read Crusader King by Susan Peek.
 
Massive empire LOLShockedConfused?
 
He controlled Jerusalem, a few of the coastal cities and border castles, dessert patches, I would not call that massive, even the original crusader states were not massive, and most of that territory had been lost by Baldwin IV's time. Not to mention that these were feudal states, so that in accordance to feaudal society, he only controlled his own Kingdom of Jerusalem, the rest of the duchies were in control of other men.
 
 
This map shows the intial Crusader states, they were allied to each other, but all had greedy monarchs who knew well where their territory extended to, and would not give an in unless they were forced to.
 
 
 
The aftermath of Sultan Salah ad-Din's conquests are shown on this map.
 
 
 
 
Here is another map with relative dates of the various states' existence.
 
 
 
 
 
Another map of the Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East in 1100.
 
 
 
 

Meanwhile, the Seljuk Zengi, atabeg of Mosul, had added Aleppo to his rule in 1128. Aleppo was the key to power in Syria, contested between the rulers of Mosul and Damascus. Both Zengi and King Baldwin II turned their attention towards Damascus; Baldwin was defeated outside the city in 1129. Damascus, ruled by the Burid Dynasty, later allied with King Fulk when Zengi besieged the city in 1139 and 1140; the alliance was negotiated by the chronicler Usamah ibn Munqidh.

In late 1144, Joscelin II allied with the Ortoqids and marched out of Edessa with almost his entire army to support the Ortoqid Kara Aslan against Aleppo. Zengi, already seeking to take advantage of Fulk's death in 1143, hurried north to besiege Edessa, which fell to him after a month on December 24, 1144. Manasses of Hierges, Philip of Milly and others were sent from Jerusalem to assist, but arrived too late. Joscelin II continued to rule the remnants of the county from Turbessel, but little by little the rest of the territory was captured or sold to the Byzantines. Zengi himself was praised throughout Islam as "defender of the faith" and al-Malik al-Mansur, "the victorious king". He did not pursue an attack on the remaining territory of Edessa, or the Principality of Antioch, as was feared; events in Mosul compelled him to return home, and he once again set his sights on Damascus. However, he was assassinated by a slave in 1146 and was succeeded in Aleppo by his son Nur ad-Din. Joscelin attempted to take back Edessa following Zengi's murder, but Nur ad-Din defeated him in November of 1146.

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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  Quote Crusader3943 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Mar-2007 at 09:06
Originally posted by es_bih

Originally posted by Crusader3943

Balwin IV truly was a great hero of the Crusaders. He had the horrible affliction of leprosy, had traitors all around him, and had a massive empire to control and defend by himself. He also saved Jerusalem from a massive Turkish army by charging into the enemy hordes with a handful of knights. He's awesome! Read Crusader King by Susan Peek.


Massive empire LOLShockedConfused?


He controlled Jerusalem, a few of the coastal cities and border castles, dessert patches, I would not call that massive, even the original crusader states were not massive, and most of that territory had been lost by Baldwin IV's time. Not to mention that these were feudal states, so that in accordance to feaudal society, he only controlled his own Kingdom of Jerusalem, the rest of the duchies were in control of other men.




This map shows the intial Crusader states, they were allied to each other, but all had greedy monarchs who knew well where their territory extended to, and would not give an in unless they were forced to.




The aftermath of Sultan Salah ad-Din's conquests are shown on this map.






Here is another map with relative dates of the various states' existence.







Another map of the Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East in 1100.







Meanwhile, the Seljuk [COLOR=#0000ff">Zengi[/COLOR">, [COLOR=#0000ff">atabeg[/COLOR"> of [COLOR=#0000ff">Mosul[/COLOR">, had added [COLOR=#0000ff">Aleppo[/COLOR"> to his rule in 1128. Aleppo was the key to power in Syria, contested between the rulers of Mosul and [COLOR=#0000ff">Damascus[/COLOR">. Both Zengi and King Baldwin II turned their attention towards Damascus; Baldwin was defeated outside the city in 1129. Damascus, ruled by the [COLOR=#0000ff">Burid Dynasty[/COLOR">, later allied with King Fulk when Zengi besieged the city in 1139 and 1140; the alliance was negotiated by the chronicler [COLOR=#0000ff">Usamah ibn Munqidh[/COLOR">.


In late 1144, Joscelin II allied with the Ortoqids and marched out of [COLOR=#0000ff">Edessa[/COLOR"> with almost his entire army to support the Ortoqid [COLOR=#0000ff">Kara Aslan[/COLOR"> against Aleppo. Zengi, already seeking to take advantage of Fulk's death in 1143, hurried north to [COLOR=#0000ff">besiege Edessa[/COLOR">, which fell to him after a month on [COLOR=#0000ff">December 24[/COLOR">, [COLOR=#0000ff">1144[/COLOR">. [COLOR=#0000ff">Manasses of Hierges[/COLOR">, [COLOR=#0000ff">Philip of Milly[/COLOR"> and others were sent from Jerusalem to assist, but arrived too late. Joscelin II continued to rule the remnants of the county from [COLOR=#0000ff">Turbessel[/COLOR">, but little by little the rest of the territory was captured or sold to the Byzantines. Zengi himself was praised throughout Islam as "defender of the faith" and al-Malik al-Mansur, "the victorious king". He did not pursue an attack on the remaining territory of Edessa, or the Principality of Antioch, as was feared; events in Mosul compelled him to return home, and he once again set his sights on Damascus. However, he was [COLOR=#0000ff">assassinated[/COLOR"> by a slave in 1146 and was succeeded in Aleppo by his son [COLOR=#0000ff">Nur ad-Din[/COLOR">. Joscelin attempted to take back Edessa following Zengi's murder, but Nur ad-Din defeated him in November of 1146.












That's still, "massive," for a teenager king.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Mar-2007 at 18:49

He did not have under his control the whole of the Latin Kingdoms, nor even the Kingdom of Jerusalem, the kingdom had four powerful duchies, among other noblemen. It was a feudal kingdom, not a centralized one.

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  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Mar-2007 at 18:58
I don't think we can claim Baldwin IV had a large and powerful kingdom, especially compared to the one held by Saladin. But this only adds to his fame, he managed to protect a rather small and weak nation against a much larger one. His disadvantages were many, not least his leprosy, yet he managed to do the task he considered to be his pre-ordained responsibility.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Mar-2007 at 21:55
Originally posted by Constantine XI

I don't think we can claim Baldwin IV had a large and powerful kingdom, especially compared to the one held by Saladin. But this only adds to his fame, he managed to protect a rather small and weak nation against a much larger one. His disadvantages were many, not least his leprosy, yet he managed to do the task he considered to be his pre-ordained responsibility.
 
Exactly.
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  Quote Crusader3943 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Mar-2007 at 13:57
Originally posted by Constantine XI

I don't think we can claim Baldwin IV had a large and powerful kingdom,
especially compared to the one held by Saladin. But this only adds to
his fame, he managed to protect a rather small and weak nation against
a much larger one. His disadvantages were many, not least his leprosy,
yet he managed to do the task he considered to be his pre-ordained
responsibility.


Good point.
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