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Why Iran will lead to World War 3

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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Why Iran will lead to World War 3
    Posted: 12-Aug-2005 at 08:37

TEHRAN (Reuters) - Former Iranian president Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani said on Friday he was astonished at the unanimity of a call by the U.N.'s nuclear watchdog for Iran to halt enrichment activities, calling it a cruel decision.

In a resolution on Thursday, the governing board of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) unanimously asked Iran to resume suspension of all nuclear fuel related activities and asked the agency to verify compliance by Tehran.

"It was astonishing and really strange...that eventually what Europeans and America wanted was approved with unanimity. How is it possible?" Rafsanjani told worshippers at Friday prayers at Tehran University.

"We didn't think that an international organization, before the eyes of the whole world, would sanction that Iran should stop everything," he added in a sermon broadcast live on state radio. "The decision was a cruel one."

Iran, which has denied Western accusations that its atomic programme is a front for covert bomb-making, resumed work at its uranium conversion plant in Isfahan on Monday.

Rafsanjani, head of the Expediency Council which arbitrates on legislative disputes between parliament and a hardline watchdog body, said Iran's decision to resume uranium conversion was irreversible.

"I am telling you to know that you could not treat Iran like Iraq or Libya," Rafsanjani told worshippers who chanted "death to America."

President Bush said the IAEA resolution was a positive first step.

The resolution, drafted by Britain, Germany and France, requests IAEA chief Mohamed ElBaradei "to provide a comprehensive report on the implementation of Iran's NPT (Non-Proliferation Treaty) Safeguards Agreement and this resolution by 3 September 2005."

The text did not say Iran should be referred to the U.N. Security Council, which has the power to impose sanctions.

U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan said he would use September's U.N. General Assembly to bring Iran's new leader face-to-face with his Western critics if no deal on Tehran's nuclear programme was reached by then.

Hardline President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad plans to participate in the next U.N. General Assembly, providing U.S. officials issue him with a visa.

Officials from Britain, France and Germany are next supposed to meet Iranian officials at the end of August.

About 1,000 Iranian worshippers rallied after the Friday prayer sermon, urging their leaders to press ahead with enrichment activities. They chanted "Down with Europe," a slogan heard for the first time after the 1979 Islamic revolution.

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews& amp;storyID=2005-08-12T114019Z_01_EIC241952_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-N UCLEAR-IRAN-RAFSANJANI-DC.XML 

President Bush said the IAEA resolution was a positive first step.

A first step to what?  

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  Quote ArmenianSurvival Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2005 at 14:45
A first step to imposing their will on foreign nations that might become healthy competition in the near future, and which might damage u.s. imperial interests. I think thats what he meant, could be wrong.
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  Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2005 at 15:40

Having nuclear power won't do anything except maybe causing a few nuclear explosions in the wrong hands, who has the wrong hands, I don't know but I wish America would stay out of this decision. The US I'm guessing is worried about Israel, but can't that country handle itself now? That country really is dragging us down...

The competition America needs to worry about is China and India and not Iran, because supposedly they are the next super powers and China is supposed to become stronger then the US from what I hear.

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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2005 at 15:50
It is in other issues such as Caspian oil, in which Iran would gain leverage over weaker US backed states such as Azerbaijan and Turkmenistan, it is that sort of competition, for resources.
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  Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2005 at 16:43

We get rescources from those countries? The US isn't even in dire need for rescources and won't be for along time. The only way Iran can hurt the US is by taking Saudi Arabia or Kuwait, and I guess now Iraq if they sell us oil because those three sit on the largest oil fields. But Saudi Arabia is the country we have the deal with and they give us more then enough of oil. On top of that the US is in the top 10 or even 5 oil producers and we haven't even opened up oil fields in Alaska yet. Honestly the US doesn't have to worry about oil, our profit comes from selling our own oil and buying Saudi Arabian oil.

But I do like the theory of America trying to control the oil fields in the Mid.East because of China, its the only thing that really makes sense. I don't know how China is going to be as a Super Power, hopefully they'll be better then my country so we don't have to have these debats lol. We'll know more as the years go on though.

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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2005 at 17:42

Oil demand has nearly caught up with oil production, the economy of every nation runs on the back of oil.

You have to take economics of extraction into account, I hear the Alaskan oil would be far too expensive to extract compared to regions elsewhere, that is a huge consideration. 

The US needs a counter to give balance to world politics, it would certainly be much worse if the Chinese were a sole superpower, but as a counter they will be productive.

 

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  Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2005 at 19:13

Well its the first time in about 15 years Americans are watching how much they spend on oil and its because of the prices, but in reality we aren't running out of any oil, not that you said  that, but big companies have found away to make money and blame it on the war.

China already kinda taunts America right now, how do you think they'll be on equal footing with us. I hope they make a better world power then we are right now, the alternative I think would be them being more agressive then us.

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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2005 at 19:36

The fact of the matter is that consumption is rapidly closing in on production - how long will it take to exploit alternative sources how much will it cost? If Alaskan oil was cheap to produce they would already be doing it and saving themselves from the variables of ME oil, but despite those variables, the biggest factor affecting prices is demand.

Why was Iraq even invaded? There was just no need based on what was being said and everyone in the US government knew it, remember that ridiculous show put on by Powell at the UN? Everyone there knew it was complete BS, a school teacher wouldn't even indict a suspect pupil based on evidence as shakey as that.  How the hell were the American public duped so readily and easily?

Iraq, with one of the largest known oil reserves, was invaded to eventually boost global oil production and more importantly, destin it for the US market. 

The US is doing everything it can in a mini cold war vrs China and Russia to make good on its foothold in central asia (founded on the basis of the war on terror) and get its companies contracts for oil industry development in that area.

Why was the US bothered about the fact that Azerbaijani oil was going to run over Iranian territory  to a Turkish port?  Why did it pressure the Azeris and others to build the pipeline over a MUCH more expensive route?  Because in case of conflict with Iran, Iran could turn off the pipeline and affect global supply and thus the price of oil.

I feel like what I am saying is a little incoherant, but I hope you can get the general idea that i am trying to put across.



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  Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2005 at 19:59

North America produces alot of oil itself, the thing is even if the Alaskan fields were cheaper then they are to open now, M.East oil would most likely still be cheaper and we would still buy it. The US can produce enough oil for itself, but the companies are trying to make a huge profit and the best way of doing this is selling US produced oil and buying M.East oil for the American consumer.

That is why I believe the Iraq war was to have greater control over oil so China won't have the chance to buy enough oil to sustain its military as well as the US could.

I'll be honest I didn't know about that Iran pipeline issue, but thinking about it, it fits into the theory. I don't know how good of allies Iran and China are, but Russia and Iran are allies. Russia has helped the Iranians build their nuclear power plant. The US government keeping that in mind probably going along with the future strategy of Iraq thought that they could supply China with oil in the future, becoming a major ally of China and a stronger enemy for the US. This is just a theory.

Honestly I don't know the truth, I can say its easily for the oil as the whole world does, or go on a theory that makes sense in thinking about the countries future and the gov't look for any means to keep its super power status from others. We can point fingers and argue for hours, but we don't have any of the information that the governments do have and it could be that both things we are saying are far from the truth, like I said we'll know why its happening the way it is in the future, only time will tell.

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  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2005 at 21:16
Originally posted by Zagros

I think its a better idea if the first group to get drafted are all the males that voted for Bush in the last election. They chose him, let them deal with his BS. Hell, let them send the women that voted for Bush too...being ignorant is not gender-exclusive. At least this way the army would be more loyal, because half of those U.S. soldiers dont even agree with the war, especially after they experienced it.

 

 

I also agree with this sentiment, the only people that should pay for this war are those who so vehemently want to fight it.  Oh and they should have to pay for it too, wheras my taxes can go to something cooler like research.

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  Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2005 at 22:47
Tobodai if they did pick a political group to go, it'll be their decision and I think it'd be the people like you and me that'll be first on that list...
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  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2005 at 23:00

Well yeah, if THEY were doing the picking...

Stil part of me almost wants to go, because part of me feels I simply must see everything "on the ground" but thats a very small part of me.

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  Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2005 at 23:13
I want to sign up just so I can get some of the soldiers out of there, the whole rotation is screwed up so soldiers are staying months after their tour of duty. I feel bad for them.
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  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 16:33
Good news for the Iranians, and the rest of the world:

Germany attacks US on Iran threat   

German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder has warned the US to back away from the possibility of military action against Iran over its nuclear programme.
His comments come a day after President Bush reiterated that force remained an option but only as a last resort.
Iran has resumed what it says is a civilian nuclear research programme but which the West fears could be used to develop nuclear arms.
Germany, France and the UK have led efforts to end the crisis peacefully.
Mr Schroeder directly challenged Mr Bush's comment that "all options are on the table" over the Iran crisis.
"Let's take the military option off the table. We have seen it doesn't work," Mr Schroeder told Social Democrats at the rally in Hanover, to rapturous applause from the crowd.
Mr Schroeder said it remained important that Iran did not gain atomic weapons, and a strong negotiating position was important.
"The Europeans and the Americans are united in this goal," he said. "Up to now we were also united in the way to pursue this."
Mr Schroeder reiterates his views in an interview to be published Sunday in the German weekly Bild am Sonntag, labelling military action "extremely dangerous".
"This is why I can with certainty exclude any participation by the German government under my direction," Mr Schroeder tells the paper. (BBC, 13/8/05)

BBC News
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  Quote cattus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 17:08
"Let's take the military option off the table. We have seen it doesn't work," Mr Schroeder told Social Democrats at the rally in Hanover, to rapturous applause from the crowd.


Yaaaaaaaay! lol   Negotiations and embargos for 12 years really did Saddam in. It only took a few hours of military hardware to knock Mr. Hussein's ass out of power.
Wont even bring up Hitler, Schroeder.
Lets see how Iraq turns out.

That said, the US should stay away from Iran.
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  Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 17:54

Originally posted by Komnenos

Good news for the Iranians, and the rest of the world:

Germany attacks US on Iran threat   

German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder has warned the US to back away from the possibility of military action against Iran over its nuclear programme.
His comments come a day after President Bush reiterated that force remained an option but only as a last resort.
Iran has resumed what it says is a civilian nuclear research programme but which the West fears could be used to develop nuclear arms.
Germany, France and the UK have led efforts to end the crisis peacefully.
Mr Schroeder directly challenged Mr Bush's comment that "all options are on the table" over the Iran crisis.
"Let's take the military option off the table. We have seen it doesn't work," Mr Schroeder told Social Democrats at the rally in Hanover, to rapturous applause from the crowd.
Mr Schroeder said it remained important that Iran did not gain atomic weapons, and a strong negotiating position was important.
"The Europeans and the Americans are united in this goal," he said. "Up to now we were also united in the way to pursue this."
Mr Schroeder reiterates his views in an interview to be published Sunday in the German weekly Bild am Sonntag, labelling military action "extremely dangerous".
"This is why I can with certainty exclude any participation by the German government under my direction," Mr Schroeder tells the paper. (BBC, 13/8/05)

BBC News

Well, doesn't this sound all too familiar?  I guess if Mr. Blair can be George Bush's "lap dog," Herr Schroeder can be Jacques Chirac's.

I have come to think that all this contemporary pacifism on the part of France and Germany is a result of the fact that between them they have not won a war in almost a century.  They are allies when it suits, but watch your back, and if you cannot win any wars, just act superior.

Schroeder may be the sacrificial lamb in the current European (read French) outrage.  It will not happen while the German government is under his direction.....The way things are going for him he may not be in office all that much longer. 



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  Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 18:03

Another comment:

By taking the military option off the table, you have just handed the other party to the negotiations a major victory.  If there are no serious consequences to be feared, why negotiate?  Why should Iran have any concern over the E.U.?

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  Quote Genghis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Aug-2005 at 23:44

Originally posted by Zagros

The US needs a counter to give balance to world politics, it would certainly be much worse if the Chinese were a sole superpower, but as a counter they will be productive.

Productive to whom?  Not to the United States certainly, and incidents such as the UNOCAL deal show we know realize that fact and are working to put China in their place.

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  Quote ArmenianSurvival Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Aug-2005 at 16:59
Originally posted by pikeshot1600

Why should Iran have any concern over the E.U.?


Why should the E.U. and the U.S. have any concern over what Iran is legally doing? There shouldnt be any consequences for Iran because they have followed international law perfectly.

Sure you can say the U.S. is the superpower and its their job to 'maintain peace'. But thats just an excuse for the powerful to keep their power. You forget, the U.S. is the only country in the negotiations who is currently occupying another nation .
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Aug-2005 at 17:41
Originally posted by Genghis

Originally posted by Zagros

The US needs a counter to give balance to world politics, it would certainly be much worse if the Chinese were a sole superpower, but as a counter they will be productive.

Productive to whom?  Not to the United States certainly, and incidents such as the UNOCAL deal show we know realize that fact and are working to put China in their place.

productive for world politics (like I said) when faced with US unilateralism.

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