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Why Iran will lead to World War 3

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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Why Iran will lead to World War 3
    Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 16:51
Cyrus, what happened to the people of Kerman after the Qajars were allowed in?  Think of the Americans as the Qajars in this example.
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  Quote Illuminati Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 19:53

Only the ignorant think the US is going to attack Iran or Syria. Its jsut something america-haters love to rant about even though they have no real knowledge of the US. Iran is an EU problem. Notice the EU is doing the negotiating, not the US. And in a war, Israel could beat the crap out of Iran without using any nukes.

"The American people will not stand for another war" - Bill Clinton

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  Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 19:58

We aren't going to be attacking no one, so stop getting all excited and alarmed about it. You say we want all these natural rescources and even have a "thirst" for them, but we don't even have the rescources to fight another war. And from what I understand is Iran has a better army then Iraq, and while we did make quick work of the Iraqi army, Iran is a whole new ball game. While we may be able to take their army also, there will be higher casualties and once again our army would be spread thinner for the after math which we are already have a hard enough time keeping in rotations for our soldiers already active.

The only way to even consider there being a US vs Iran war is just wishful thinking. Why do I say that, because we are going to be going to war for atleast another 5-10 years and that I can guarantee.

And about the US attacking Turkey over treasures under ground, don't hold your breath.

"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." E.Abbey
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  Quote Thegeneral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 20:03
Originally posted by SearchAndDestroy

 And from what I understand is Iran has a better army then Iraq, and while we did make quick work of the Iraqi army, Iran is a whole new ball game. While we may be able to take their army also, there will be higher casualties and once again our army would be spread thinner for the after math which we are already have a hard enough time keeping in rotations for our soldiers already active.

Iraq did not have a coherent army after we destroyed their infastructure fromt he sky.  We lost very few soldiers during the actualy "war".  We lost 90% of our casualties to people who aren't even Iraqi!

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  Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 20:20
Thats what I mean, Iran is going to be a whole new ball game, its not going to be another Iraq at all, only the aftermath will make us put more soldiers into something we don't have to and become another hot zone for insurgents.
"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." E.Abbey
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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 20:30

 

i think if there will be a WW III  then it must has something to do with Oil and therefore something to do with Middle east

and that can be guessed in many ways such as the US want to get more control over the middle east (which whats happening) and most of the Powers in the world are not that happy about that (wonder why?) and that all to do with Oil and money, and plus oil there is Isael which is not benifiting the US in anyway execpt making No stability in the Middle east and continues struggle from both sides.

that is one of the US's mistakes focusing too much in the middle east and forgetting about China rising. plus aling with India for possible Chinese wake up wont help much that india needs help by itself to control its population and its economy.

 

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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Aug-2005 at 10:44

You are right, Oil should be just for Mullahs, anyway they need it for setting fire to the people!

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  Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Aug-2005 at 13:20

Originally posted by azimuth

that is one of the US's mistakes focusing too much in the middle east and forgetting about China rising. plus aling with India for possible Chinese wake up wont help much that india needs help by itself to control its population and its economy.

Actually some people think that the whole reason we went to Iraq was to prevent China from buying it in the future because they are going to need to import more then 50% of oil I think it was said in 2007, don't quote me on that I can't remember the exact number. Anyways a military moves on oil and if you take that away from a enemy you get an upper hand. If this is true then it strategically thinking ahead for the future.

And enough about us needing oil because we don't. We have two allies that we buy off of that are in the top 10 countries that produce oil, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. North America also produces alot of oil only that the US sells its oil to Japan for a higher price and buys from the Mid.East. We honestly don't need oil or crave it, but if its true about controlling it from China getting it then the US is thinking about the future and not right now. Heres a graph of oil production from 2004 I found for you guys.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0922041.html

Top World Oil Producers,

Exporters, Consumers, and

Importers, 2004

(millions of barrels per day)

 Producers1 Total oil
production
 Exporters2 Net oil
exports
 Consumers3 Total oil
consumption
 Importers4 Net oil
imports
 1. Saudi Arabia 10.37  1. Saudi Arabia 8.73  1. United States 20.5  1. United States 11.8
 2. Russia 9.27  2. Russia 6.67  2. China 6.5  2. Japan 5.3
 3. United States 8.69  3. Norway 2.91  3. Japan 5.4  3. China 2.9
 4. Iran 4.09  4. Iran 2.55  4. Germany 2.6  4. Germany 2.5
 5. Mexico 3.83  5. Venezuela 2.36  5. Russia 2.6  5. South Korea 2.1
 6. China 3.62  6. United Arab Emirates 2.33  6. India 2.3  6. France 2.0
 7. Norway 3.18  7. Kuwait 2.20  7. Canada 2.3  7. Italy 1.7
 8. Canada 3.14  8. Nigeria 2.19  8. Brazil 2.2  8. Spain 1.6
 9. Venezuela 2.86  9. Mexico 1.80  9. South Korea 2.1  9. India 1.5
10. United Arab Emirates 2.76 10. Algeria 1.68 10. France 2.0 10. Taiwan 1.0
11. Kuwait 2.51 11. Iraq 1.48 11. Mexico 2.0    
11. Nigeria 2.51 12. Libya 1.34        
13. United Kingdom 2.08 13. Kazakhstan 1.06        
14. Iraq 2.03 14. Qatar 1.02        

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050810/pl_afp/irannuclearisfah anus_050810162244;_ylt=AuU.DC_xgvEDthRfOlpf6YJSw60A;_ylu=X3o DMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

US condemns Iran's breaking of UN seals on nuclear plant

47 minutes ago

VIENNA (AFP) - The United States condemned Iran's breaking of UN seals to bring online a key nuclear fuel plant, calling it a sign of Tehran's disregard for the international community.

"Today's breaking of seals is yet another sign of Iran's disregard for international concerns," Matt Boland, spokesman for the US mission to international organizations in Vienna, told AFP.

Iran on Monday took the first steps to break a suspension of nuclear fuel cycle work, which it had begun in November to start talks with the European Union on getting trade and other benefits in return for guarantees it was not making atomic weapons.

Iranian technicians on Wednesday removed seals placed by the UN watchdog International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) at a uranium conversion plant in Isfahan, 400 kilometres (250 miles) south of Tehran, allowing the facility to return to full capacity and raising the stakes in a standoff with the international community.

The United States accuses Tehran of covertly developing nuclear weapons, a charge vehemently denied by Iran which says its atomic program is a peaceful effort to generate electricity.

Boland said the United States "strongly" supports the European Union's effort through talks with Tehran "to convince Iran to stop its dangerous activities."

"We urge Iran to give serious consideration to the EU's proposals," for the Islamic Republic to suspend all nuclear fuel cycle work in order to guarantee it will not make atomic weapons, Boland said.

Iran's removal of the seals comes as the European Union tries to win approval at a emergency IAEA meeting in Vienna for a draft resolution calling on Iran to reverse its decision to push ahead with the nuclear fuel work.

Conversion turns uranium ore or yellowcake into a feed gas for making enriched uranium, which can be the fuel for reactors or the explosive core of atomic bombs.

Iran points out that its right to the nuclear fuel cycle is legally enshrined under the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and that it has infringed no international rules by resuming uranium conversion.

How come the US always has to be the one to point things out, I wish my government would quit doing that.... Anyways theres some more news on the whole Iran situation I thought you might like to read.



Edited by SearchAndDestroy
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  Quote Miller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Aug-2005 at 15:49
 

I don't Iran is planing to build Nukes right now. Their plan is to be nuclear ready. Maintaining a a full nuclear arsenal is very costly and not that many countries can afford that. US has a little bit of conflict of interest with the nuclear issue from one side we would actually want Iran to develop nuclear energy so they have more oil to export from the other side having a nuclear Iran with the current government makes us and the Isrealies uncomfortable.

As for Iranians, they should take responsibility for their own internal affairs. Government of every country is responsible for the interest of people of that country first any government appointed by the US or other foreign forces would be inline with interest of the foreign power first which may or may not be the same as what the interest of Iranians are

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  Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Aug-2005 at 16:46

Most governments take care of their own interests first (and those of the ruling elite) and the interests of the rest of the governed second, especially as those interests relate to the interests of the government.

What makes you think the mullahs give a rat's ass about the people?

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  Quote Miller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Aug-2005 at 17:19
 

I didn't say they did. I said they have the responsibility to to so as any other government does, and if they don't it is the responsibility of Iranians (or any other governed society )to get ride of them or change things. A US appointed government won't be much better than what they have in the likes of Egypt and Saudi. All they are being told by the US is to watch for our interest and we will help stay in power.


One of the short coming of democracy has been than in many cases it could lead to the rule of the elite and influential but that is another discussion

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  Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Aug-2005 at 21:06

OK; maybe I read too much into your post.

The development of nuclear capability that can be turned to armaments will do nothing but make Iran a target of military power far, far more powerful and sophisticated than theirs.  They can be as defiant as they want...it will not change anything.

There is NO WAY Israel will not respond to this development.  There is a great possibility the U.S. will respond to this development.  I do not think Russia will be unconcerned, and they may respond forcefully to this development.

Perhaps we are dealing with "brinksmanship" here with an eventual backdown from the abyss, but the Iranian mullahs, and their governmental puppets are playing a dangerous game with this stuff, and they do not seem to understand the discrepancy in strategic capability that they may face.  Oh, well......their problem.

 

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  Quote strategos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Aug-2005 at 21:08
Why does US not export more oil?
http://theforgotten.org/intro.html
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  Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Aug-2005 at 21:13

For a similar reason that Greece does not export oil.

Try doing without it.

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  Quote Miller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Aug-2005 at 21:33
 

The more populous and developed a a country is the more oil it consumes. The reason many arab countries can export so much of their oil is that most have very low population and are not very high on development scale. As oil becomes more expensive it make other sources of energy like nuclear more cost effective and that is why there is an effort to increase the use nuclear power in the use and cut back on oil consumption in the US

 

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  Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Aug-2005 at 21:47

I agree...as oil consumption increases, nuclear generation becomes more attractive.  Three Mile Island, and Chernobyl are becoming victims of that 'cultural amnesia' that afflicts us all.

It is pointless to argue the merits of "alternative" energy sources.  The reality is what it is......we continue to exist in the oil age, and all the ramificationas of that will have to be dealt with somehow.

A great concern is that those who think they can exert control over this commodity by some degree of military capability (Iran) will force a confrontation that may be far more devastating to their own interests than it will be to those of others......Take that for what you will; the West, and the increasingly industrialized East will have what they require, and, if conflict arises, the majority of the real price for that will be paid for by someone else.

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  Quote strategos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2005 at 01:26
Originally posted by pikeshot1600

For a similar reason that Greece does not export oil.

Try doing without it.

Maybe they should stop storing a certain percent of there oil.

Or dig in Alaska.

http://theforgotten.org/intro.html
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  Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2005 at 16:08

And what is that supposed to do? Bush is already pushing for digging in Alaska just to get people off our back about the US trying to take the middle east for oil.

Make produce alot of oil, but we buy it from the Mid.East and sell ours to other countries to make a profit. We buy our oil from Saudi Arabia who sells it to us for a good price and we don't have to worry about them running out of oil. The US has plenty of oil, its going to be China from what I understand thats going to be desperate.

I really do believe we didn't need this war at all. We did make some Iraqi's happy, but there was and is to much blood shed for something that wasn't even apart of the objective and that was to prvent Terrorist from having a safe haven to train in. The only way I can think of for the purpose of this war was to get our presence in Iraq to prevent China from being supplied oil. Using the war on terror to justify this action I think was just a cloak for the larger strategy and was planning ahead, but honestly I don't know the truth, but I do know we really aren't having oil problems.

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  Quote ArmenianSurvival Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2005 at 18:27

If the U.S. happens to attack Iran, it wont be another Iraq....there will be more casualties in a much shorter period of time than there is in Iraq.

And the domestic situation in the U.S. if we happen to go to war with Iran will be one of a Nazi-dictatorship posing as a democracy. After 9/11 the government passed the Patriot Act, which gives the government the right to break into ANY home at ANY time, and they dont even have to have a reason to do it (one of the many Nazi-esque laws in the Patriot Act). This is the makings of a domestic police-state similiar to the SS and Gestapo of Nazi Germany. If a war with Iran ensues, the domestic situation will only be worse, with more outrageous domestic laws being passed under the guise of "protection from terrorism". Also, the economy will go to sh**.

And also, if the U.S. goes to war with Iran, chances are they will bring back the military draft. They are currently trying to pass it in the senate and congress, but with no success. But i think the rule is that in a wartime situation the president can decide 'what is best' because the U.S. president is also the Commander-in-Chief of the Army. There is already a shortage of soldiers in Iraq, and if we start a war with Iran, its almost certain that they will reinstate the military draft.

For all you U.S. citizens in the forum, here are the most common age groups to be drafted into the military, according to their system of drafting soldiers.

1. If your 20th birthday is in the same year as the draft, you will have the largest chance of being drafted.

2. If your 21st birthday is in the same year as the draft, you will have the second-largest chance of being drafted.

3. 22nd b-day
4. 23rd b-day
5. 24th b-day
6. 25th b-day....after this it goes to the 25 and older group. 18-year olds and those turning 19 will probably not be drafted. But i wouldnt be surprised if they change this order before wartime. Afterall, they change anything they want when its convenient for them.

Im gonna be 20 in 2006, so im probably going to be shipped to Tehran or Esfahan or Tabriz or any one of those great places. Problem is my job will be to blow up innocent people. Id rather serve jail-time or leave the country.

I think its a better idea if the first group to get drafted are all the males that voted for Bush in the last election. They chose him, let them deal with his BS. Hell, let them send the women that voted for Bush too...being ignorant is not gender-exclusive. At least this way the army would be more loyal, because half of those U.S. soldiers dont even agree with the war, especially after they experienced it.



Edited by ArmenianSurvival
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2005 at 19:15

I think its a better idea if the first group to get drafted are all the males that voted for Bush in the last election. They chose him, let them deal with his BS. Hell, let them send the women that voted for Bush too...being ignorant is not gender-exclusive. At least this way the army would be more loyal, because half of those U.S. soldiers dont even agree with the war, especially after they experienced it.

 

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