Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Caesars army

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Rome View Drop Down
Samurai
Samurai


Joined: 29-Jun-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 129
  Quote Rome Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Caesars army
    Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 00:04
I know alot about Caesars army but I was woundering if anybody has any info on the exact amount of legionaries in Caesars Legions and the amount of men in Ceasars cavalry, archer, and slinger units and the ranks in his army EXC. Trust me its a hard subject to dig up info on. Also can I get info on marching formations and camp formation if its possible. 

Edited by Rome
Back to Top
Reginmund View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke


Joined: 08-May-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1943
  Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 10:09
Gah, I was writing an article here but then it disappeared.

Oh well, I can recommend some reading instead: Caesar's Gallic War by Kate Gilliver and Caesar's Civil War by Adrian Goldsworthy.

Also visit The Roman Empire website, read the article on the army, it has plenty of numerical estimates and with some simple math I believe you should be able to find the answers you're looking for.
Back to Top
Rome View Drop Down
Samurai
Samurai


Joined: 29-Jun-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 129
  Quote Rome Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 16:48
thank you very much.

Edited by Rome
Back to Top
Ahmed The Fighter View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
Lion of Babylon

Joined: 17-Apr-2005
Location: Iraq
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1106
  Quote Ahmed The Fighter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Aug-2005 at 13:16

This is a little information

The Roman army of Gaius Marius, Cornelius Sulla, Pompey the Great, Julius Caesar, Mark Anthony and the young Octavian. It represents a turbulent time in Roman history, the transition from Republican to Imperial Rome, occasioned through the accession of dictators such as Sulla and Caesar.

The Marian Army was distinct for several reasons. It was still based on the Roman legion, but had abandoned the three battle lines (hastati, principes, and triarii) and the manipular checker formation in favor of the generic legionary organized in ten large cohorts, which generally fought in a solid line of battle. It was also the first Roman army recruited extensively from the common classes of Rome and from non-Roman Italians who received land and citizenship in return for their military service. The soldiers were generally paid by their commanding generals (not Rome itself) from the spoils of their campaigns. Therefore the loyalty of the Roman Army shifted increasingly to the most successful of its commanders. In short, the Marian Roman army was an army of professionals rather than citizen soldiers.

Gaius Marius was elected Consul the first of seven times in 108 BC and immediately led a successful campaign against Jugurtha in Numidia. The Marian list, however, properly starts with the devastating Roman defeat at Arausio in 105 BC to the Cimbri and Teutones, which exposed the Eternal City to the threat of marauding Gauls. Marius was quickly elected Consul a second time, raised a new army and proceeded to defeat the Gauls in battle at Aquae Sextiae in 102 BC and Vercellae in 101 BC. Although acknowledged the "First Man of Rome," Marius was never a clever politican or accepted by the Roman Senatorial class as a social equal. He was forced to suppress an unrising by his own agent Saturninus in 99 BC. Thereafter, the Roman Senate refused to enfrancise the Italian cities whose drafts had helped form the backbone of Marius' armies. With Marius off campaigning in the East, the cities rose in rebellion (Italian Wars of 91-87 BC) and the Senate enlisted the aid of Marius' former chief lieutenant Lucius Cornelius Sulla to suppress the rebellion, which he did with considerable efficiency.

Meanwhile, the Senate gave Marius proconsular authority to campaign against the armies of Mithrades in Pontus. Sulla brought his army to Rome and intimidated the Senate into outlawing Marius and conferring the command on himself. After Sulla's departure, Marius brought his own army to Rome, occupying the city and conducting a bloody purge of his political opponents that lasted until his death in 87 BC. After his death, the party of Marius continued to rule under Cinna. In the east, Sulla made a peace pact with Mithrades and quickly set march for Rome to restore his political fortunes. The Senate hastily created an army of 100,000 built around Marius' veterans, but poorly lead by inexperienced Senators. Sulla defeated them decisively at the Battle of the Colline Gate (82 BC) and had the Marian veterans put to death. Holding the upper hand, he forced the Senate to declare him dictator for life. Thereafter, he conducted his own bloody purge of political opponents. Strangely enough, despite his absolute power, he then ruled through laws promulgated by the Senate and otherwise honored Rome's republican form of government until he died in 78 BC.

The death of Sulla prompted a brief uprising by Lepidus in 77 BC, which was quickly squashed by Gnaeus Pompeius on behalf of the Senate. Pompey the Great was then given a commission to suppress the rebellion of Quintus Sertorius in Spain and restore that province to Roman rule. Treachery produced the death of Sertorius, allowing Pompey to claim victory and return to Rome a hero in 72 BC.

Meanwhile, in 73 BC, a slave uprising in Sicily and Southern Italy led by Spartacus occupied Rome's military attentions. The wealthy Marcus Crassus was given command of the army that eventually subdued Spartacus.

In 57 BC, Crassus, Pompey and Julius Caesar joined political forces. Crassus arranged for consular authority in Syria in the east, where he hoped to win military fame against the Parthian Empire. In fact, he was to suffer defeat and ignoble death to the Parthians in 53 BC. Pompey was given Spain, but allowed to rule his province from Rome. Caesar used their influence to extend his consular authority in Cisalpine Gaul for 5 years, enabling him to complete the conquest of Gaul. In 56 BC, he crossed the Rhine River into Germany. In 55 BC, he landed a Roman army in Britain. In 53-51 BC, he quashed a major Gallic uprising.

In 50 BC, Cicero brought charges of treason against Caesar, who collected his army north of the Rubicon River, while he attempted to negotiate a political solution. His Senatorial opponents were unwilling to compromise, and so Caesar sent his army south ("Alea Ecta Est"). Rome was unprepared and Pompey quickly fled east through Illyria into Greece where he collected the scattered elements of his army. At Pharsalus in 48 BC, Caesar's 22,000 veterans decisively defeated the Pompeian army of 40,000. Pompey fled to Egypt where he was killed by the Ptolemys to win the favor of Caesar who followed closely in pursuit.

Caesar found himself ruler of an empire in rebellion. After a fling with Queen Cleopatra in Alexandria, he set out to systematically suppress uprisings in Syria and Asia Minor (47 BC), North Africa (46 BC), and Spain (45 BC), routing out the last of the Pompeians, while his loyal lieutenant Mark Anthony ruled in his name in Rome. On returning to Rome, Caesar held a fabulous triple triumph (made famous by his statement "veni, vidi, vici"), adopted sweeping reforms, and then in early 44 BC had himself declared dictator for life. As he finalised plans for a campaign against the Parthians, he was assassinated by his enemies in the Senate on March 15, 44 BC ("The Ides of March").

Mark Anthony was able to manipulate public opinion against the conspirators Brutus and Cassius, who quickly fled Rome for Greece. Anthony's attempts to seize the reins of power, however, were thwarted by Caesar's young heir Octavian, who stubbornly demanded his inheritance and who was able to enlist the support of Caesar's veterans. A triumvirate was negotiated with Anthony and Octavian sharing power with Lepidus. In 42 BC, Anthony and Octavian led an army into Greece and defeated Brutus and Cassius in successive days at the Battle of Philippi. Anthony and Octavian then split the empire between them with little regard for Lepidus, with Anthony taking the East and Octavian the West.

From 40-36 BC, Octavian was occupied suppressing the rebellion of Pompey's son, Sextus Pompeius, in Spain. By 35 BC, Lepidus had grown dissatisfied with his diminished status in the triumvirate and rebelled only to be defeated and forced into retirement by Octavian. Meanwhile, Anthony conducted an unsuccessful campaign in Parthia in 36-35 BC and then took Queen Cleopatra as his consort.

When the agreed term of their triumvirate expired in 32 BC, Octavian and Anthony quickly prepared for a decisive campaign to settle the issue of who would rule Rome. They met in a great naval battle at Actium in 31 BC, which resulted in a decisive victory for Octavian and ultimately in the suicides of Anthony and Cleopatra. Octavian returned to Rome where he adopted the title "imperator."

After notable reforms, Octavian attempted to retire in 27 BC, but was convinced by the Senate to retain proconsular authority over Italy, Gaul, Spain and Syria. The Senate also conferred upon Octavian the title "Augustus." He sought to retire again in 23 BC, but the Senate negotiated with Augustus to remain, conferring on him the "imperium praeconsulare maius," which constituted the highest level of "imperial" authority. Although Augustus preferred to think of himself as the princeps ("First Man in Rome") of the Roman Republic and not as an emperor, historians generally treat this as the point of transition between Republican and Imperial Rome. Augustus continued to rule despite worsening health until 14 BC.

Army Composition

In DBA terms, the Marian Roman army boasts more Blades than a Ginsu commercial. Its composition is as follows:

2x 3Cv Mix of Roman Equites Alares and Germanic, Gallic or other allies.
8x 4Bd The classic Roman Legionary, dubbed "Marius' Mules" for their practice of carrying their own baggage over their shoulders tied to a forked stick.
1x 2Ps Samnite irregulars, Syrian or Cretan archers, Celiberian or Gallic skirmishers, Baeleric slingers, Spanish scutari, or other light troops and specialists recruited from amongst Rome's allies.
1x 4Bd, 3Cv or 2Ps More of the above.

Dominque Ducros' Pompeian Variant I'm a french fanatic of DBA and a roman military historian. According to Caesar (De Bel. Civ. III, 44), the Pompeian army included hundreds of archers who posed a serious challenge to the Caesarian legionaries during the Illyrian campaign. I think it could be possible to represent this fact by adding an option to the Marian Roman army list (# 59) or modifying the compulsory troops. So I propose the two following variants:

  • 2x 3Cv, 8x 4Bd, 1x 2Ps, 1x 4Bd or 3Cv or 2Ps or 4Bw

  • 2x 3Cv, 7x 4Bd, 1x 2Ps, 1x 4Bw, 1x 4Bd or 3Cv or 2Ps

Enemies

An army of conquest, Marian Rome's lengthy list of enemies includes the Illyrians (#26), Thracians (#27), Gallic (#35), Later Ptolemaic (#42b), Early Armenian (#44), Parthian (#51), Ancient Spanish (#52), Numidian (#53), Early German (#57), Pontic (#58), Marian Roman (#59), and Ancient British (#60).

Tactics

The Marian Roman army must rely on the one-two punch of its Blades and Cavalry. It does not perform particularly well in rough terrain and lacks a "quick-kill" capability. However, Roman Blades are the queen of DBA battle, the Marian Roman army is quite resilient and 2-3 elements of cavalry give it reasonable mobility. It is the type of army that tends to grind down an opponent; although with good die, it can score quick victories based on favorable match-ups by its Blades.

Warband-heavy foes such as the Gallic, Early Germans and Ancient British can ruin a Marian Roman's day with good die-rolling and their quick-kill capability versus Blades. Use your Cavalry to intimidate the Warband and work with your Psiloi and Blades to force overlaps and flanks versus the impetuous Warband, and the odds lie with the Romans.

Rough terrain armies like the Illyrians, Thracians, and Ancient Spanish are easily beaten in open terrain, but become challenging foes when confronted on a board heavy in bad going. Patience is the key. Bad going armies tend to leave a few elements exposed in good terrain; divide and conquer your opponent one element at a time.

Mounted armies like the Early Armenians, Parthians, and Numidians can be frustrating to the Marian Roman. If using an optional Knight Quick-Kill versus Blades rule, the match-up of Parthian or Armenian Knights can even become quite deadly for the Roman Blades, who can expect little help from the Roman Cavalry. Also, Roman Blades can flail away at Light Horse all day with little effect. Against the Parthians or Numidians, protecting the Roman camp becomes an important issue, and the enemy's camp becomes one the few fixed targets that the Marian Roman can engage tactically. Expose as few flanks as possible and keep plugging away, for eventually the die will tell.

The Later Ptolemaic army can present a serious challenge with six Pikes in double-ranks at +6 versus Blades at +5. They can also toss their own element of Blades and Knights into the mix, as well as an Elephant. This is not the push-over army that you would expect historically. The Romans will need to make good use of their cavalry and attempt to flank the shortened Ptolemaic line.

The Marian Romans may opt for 1 or 2 elements of Psiloi. Psiloi can be used quite effectively in three different ways. First, they can be used in front of your battleline to break up advancing warband. When the psiloi are almost inevitably forced to recoil back through your line of blades (one of the few times when you're happy to lose a close combat), the warband will follow impetuously exposing their flanks to counter-attack by Blades in the next bound. Second, the Psiloi can come in handy when facing Numidians or Later Ptolemies if they opt for the Elephant option. Third, Psiloi can be positioned in support of Blades (adding a +1 bonus) when attacking an enemy camp or defending against mounted attacks. Otherwise, Roman Psiloi will be best employed screening the army's exposed flanks against overlaps by their opposing numbers.

Camp

A hasty marching camp, an embanked pallisade with ditch, or a row of legionary tents all make good Marian Roman camps. A generic ox-cart of supplies will also do the trick.

"May the eyes of cowards never sleep"
Khalid Bin Walid
Back to Top
Ahmed The Fighter View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar
Lion of Babylon

Joined: 17-Apr-2005
Location: Iraq
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1106
  Quote Ahmed The Fighter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Aug-2005 at 13:18

Uniforms of Roman army

Helmet: These were mainly still the bronze Gallic type found in the Polybian army. They are a simple helmet shape with cheek flaps. There is no neckguard as yet. Most authorities believe that the legionaries at this time had a red horsehair crest on the top of the helmet. This, however, is questionable, as any sort of uniformity at this time is highly debatable. Many of the legionaries, in my view, should have no crest at all, others may have crests of colours other than red. It is known that Polybian period romans wore three feathers on top of the helmet, black or purple, and this tradition may have survived. Other possibilities include all-black crests, different helmet types, or no helmet at all - if Caesar would have tolerated such sloppiness. In other words, the Romans didn't chuck out their equipment once a new type came in. I guess a second hand helmet would be cheap - "Old pseudo-corinthian helmet only 20 sestertii ma'am!" - or many soldiers used their old Dad's helmet for luck. Still another possibility is the capturing of enemy helmets a la Obelix, or maybe the use of a Cavalry helmet that someone dropped.

Shields: These weren't the rectangular shields seen in Spartacus, Quo Vadis, Ben-Hur or Asterix the Gaul - most Romans still used the Celtic big oval shield, though, again, they often used old stuff. The main thing is that they all used rather big, tall shields in order to do the Testudo maneuver everyone go's on about. Also, they almost certainly had uniform shield blazons. An advancing Marian Roman Army would be mainly an advancing line of uniformly couloured shields. The designs were celtic or with the famous wings and thunderbolts. Insides of shields were dull red.

Tunic: Any colour, though some say they were uniform red, others say uniform white, others say all sorts of mixed colours. Same arguments as above apply.

Armour: Not the fancy plate armour that Obelix couldn't get on...at the time of Asterix, as far as is known, the Romans used Celtic chain mail with leather edging, sometimes with nicely decorated shoulder flaps. Decorations of this sort were white or naturally coloured snakes on a brown background.

Sword: Again, Celtic in origin (no I'm not in the Welsh Nationalist Party!) The gladius was made of high grade iron, in a scabbard often with remarkable tin and bronze decorations meant to look like gold and silver!

Overall, I'd say Hollywood has done more to cock up our views of Roman equipment than anyone else. Uniformity is a hotly debated issue...how could regularity freaks like the Romans allow their armies to dress casual? etcetera, but it is up to the individual painter to decide if he wants prettiness, or possible greater historical accuracy

"May the eyes of cowards never sleep"
Khalid Bin Walid
Back to Top
Rome View Drop Down
Samurai
Samurai


Joined: 29-Jun-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 129
  Quote Rome Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Aug-2005 at 21:36

firstly the Cimbri and Teutones were not Gallic they were a German tribe.

Also were did you get your info.

Lastly what were the ranks. Thanks for the info I already knew about what you explained and I just wanted to confirm what I have learn.

Back to Top
Gavriel View Drop Down
Pretorian
Pretorian
Avatar

Joined: 17-Jun-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 151
  Quote Gavriel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Aug-2005 at 03:58
The Gladii is a Iberian celtic weapon,the Romans would often use or evolve the weapons of people they had fought against,Gallic helms too.
Roman ranking system
Legatus Legionis
Praefectus Castrorum  
Tribuni Angust iclavii
Primus Pilus
         &nbs p;    Centurions
Pilus prior
Pilus Posterior
Princeps prior
Princeps Posterior
hastatus Prior
Hastatus Posterior
         &nbs p;  Rank and File
Princepales
Aquilifer
Signifer
Optio
Tessarius
Cornicen
Imagnifer
Immunes
Discens
Milites Gregarius
Tirones

I think thats it


Edited by Gavriel
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.168 seconds.