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Longest Reign!!

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  Quote Decebal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Longest Reign!!
    Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 09:12
Originally posted by Aeolus

Originally posted by kotumeyil

What about the longest reign of a dynasty? For example it is said that Ottomans reigned for 623 years, but I don't know if this is the longest...

I had read once Zhou Dynasty of China (1122 BC - 256 BC) was the longest.

No, actually the longest ruling dynasty in the world, which continues to this day, is the Yamato dynasty of Japan. Although a precise starting date hasn't been establshed, tradition places the first emperor of the Yamato dynasty at 660BC.

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  Quote Quetzalcoatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 20:15

You're missing Maju's point. You could have a 200-year-old human at a time when life expectancy was 18. Or life expectancy could be 90 and no-one live longer that 100.

Life expectancy is affected by medical and hygienic advances and the like. Maximum life span is largely genetic, it's unaffected by evolution (since living longer - past a certain age - doesn't increase the number of children), and so far we haven't done any serious genetic engineering in humans

 No it is you that is not getting my point. If you have life expentancy at 18 the extreme would not exceed 60 years old (although the more primitive you are the greater the variance). Our age is partly determine by our genetics but our environment mosty determine how fast we die. Perhaps many of us have the potential to live perhaps 300 years in the best possible environment, but without the appropriate technology such as vaccination, proper diet and medication and in the future gene therapy you will die fast. The extreme are those who had exceptional genetics but still the limit put upon them by the environment will cut this life considerably. With an expected life of 18 year old, no one can live at 200 years, the variance is way to high and improbable. if you look at the chart, no one exceeded the 80 years in early egypt, and they certainly sampled a rather large number of bones and mostly the wealthiest. that's why if someone tell me that a Pharaoh reigned for more than 70 years, i would automatically dismissed such a statement as improbable, freaks exists but you don't bet on freaks, as simple as that. that the scientific approach. However you need to verify the statement, by analysing the specimen scientifically and perhaps looking at historical data to back such an extreme specimen (not shown on the chart). If you don't find such evidence, it would be more logical to deny that any king in such an early age lived that old rather than to accept.



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  Quote Quetzalcoatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 20:24
Originally posted by azimuth

 

well i think living to 96 is not that weird and he was king of egypt  so you can consider that the 0.001% of that population life expectancy that time.

and Ramisses( spelling ) i think ruled for 60 years or so.

which is a good excuse for him to be considered God or something.

it will be weird when you go to some stories talking about someone rules for 20,000 years

i think that was the yellow king of china or something.

 

 

Rameses II rule for 66 years  perhaps 65 years  (1278 to 1212 B.C), to be taken with a pint of salt. Pharaohs were masters of propaganda, they did a lot of thing to be an outstanding, better than their predecessors. It was a world of proganda .  Although test reveal a 90 year old longevity, which was considered as extremely rare for the time. He may have been a freak in reality. But I do not accept the test done on the ramses as proof enough, I'm very sceptical about the method use.



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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 20:43
Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl

If you have life expentancy at 18 the extreme would not exceed 60 years old (although the more primitive you are the greater the variance). Our age is partly determine by our genetics but our environment mosty determine how fast we die. Perhaps many of us have the potential to live perhaps 300 years in the best possible environment, but without the appropriate technology such as vaccination, proper diet and medication and in the future gene therapy you will die fast. The extreme are those who had exceptional genetics but still the limit put upon them by the environment will cut this life considerably. With an expected life of 18 year old, no one can live at 200 years, the variance is way to high and improbable. if you look at the chart, no one exceeded the 80 years in early egypt, and they certainly sampled a rather large number of bones and mostly the wealthiest. that's why if someone tell me that a Pharaoh reigned for more than 70 years, i would automatically dismissed such a statement as improbable, freaks exists but you don't bet on freaks, as simple as that. that the scientific approach. However you need to verify the statement, by analysing the specimen scientifically and perhaps looking at historical data to back such an extreme specimen (not shown on the chart). If you don't find such evidence, it would be more logical to deny that any king in such an early age lived that old rather than to accept.



That's not that way. If you take the demographic data from Niger for instance, you will notice that while life expectancy is around 40-50 years, there are some that reach at least 90. And when you take the data of a long-living developed country like Spain, where the life expectancy is of around 80, there are still only a few that reach 90 or more. We haven't expanded the maximum duration of life of people... we just have reduced the risks of early death. Maybe the future brings somethig different but, for what I know of the reasons of death, typical of sexual (normally pluriceluar) species, it's going to be truly difficult to defeat death. But anyhow that's another discussion.


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  Quote Quetzalcoatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 21:15
Originally posted by Maju

Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl

If you have life expentancy at 18 the extreme would not exceed 60 years old (although the more primitive you are the greater the variance). Our age is partly determine by our genetics but our environment mosty determine how fast we die. Perhaps many of us have the potential to live perhaps 300 years in the best possible environment, but without the appropriate technology such as vaccination, proper diet and medication and in the future gene therapy you will die fast. The extreme are those who had exceptional genetics but still the limit put upon them by the environment will cut this life considerably. With an expected life of 18 year old, no one can live at 200 years, the variance is way to high and improbable. if you look at the chart, no one exceeded the 80 years in early egypt, and they certainly sampled a rather large number of bones and mostly the wealthiest. that's why if someone tell me that a Pharaoh reigned for more than 70 years, i would automatically dismissed such a statement as improbable, freaks exists but you don't bet on freaks, as simple as that. that the scientific approach. However you need to verify the statement, by analysing the specimen scientifically and perhaps looking at historical data to back such an extreme specimen (not shown on the chart). If you don't find such evidence, it would be more logical to deny that any king in such an early age lived that old rather than to accept.



That's not that way. If you take the demographic data from Niger for instance, you will notice that while life expectancy is around 40-50 years, there are some that reach at least 90. And when you take the data of a long-living developed country like Spain, where the life expectancy is of around 80, there are still only a few that reach 90 or more. We haven't expanded the maximum duration of life of people... we just have reduced the risks of early death. Maybe the future brings somethig different but, for what I know of the reasons of death, typical of sexual (normally pluriceluar) species, it's going to be truly difficult to defeat death. But anyhow that's another discussion.

 

nonsense, prove it Sir. Show me the age population distribution of Niger and Spain. if you don't I will.



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  Quote Quetzalcoatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 21:20

 

 niger

http://www.census.gov/cgi-bin/ipc/idbpyrs.pl?cty=NG&out= s&ymax=300

 

 

 Spain

http://www.census.gov/cgi-bin/ipc/idbpyrs.pl?cty=SP&out= s&ymax=300

 

 I hope you can analyse the data. The data are crude but you can clearly notice the proportion of the upper extreme.



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  Quote Quetzalcoatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 21:28

This prove my point as time and technology progresses, the extremes are push further and further. My theory than human will reach 200 years (or perhaps 300 gene therapy excluded) is not so farfetched,a nd back by many experts in the field.

http://www.census.gov/cgi-bin/ipc/idbpyrs.pl?cty=FR&out= s&ymax=300

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  Quote Berosus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 21:31
For the twentieth century, I think the record goes to King Sobhuza II of Swaziland, 1899-1982.  However, he was only six months old when crowned, so Labotsibeni, his grandmother, ruled in his name until he was twenty-two.

Cyrus, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Shapur II crowned before he was born?  Edward Gibbon claimed that for the coronation ceremony, the Magi displayed the pregnant queen mother on a bed in the throne room, and they placed the crown on her stomach.

In the case of Pepi II, I believe the Old Kingdom ended with him because he outlived all the other men of the VI dynasty; a short-lived queen named Nitocris succeeded him.

As for the longest-lived monarch alive today, I'd like to nominate Bhumibol Adulyadej Rama IX; he has been in charge of Thailand since 1946.
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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 21:35
How many celebrate their 110th birthday? Statistically no one in either place. And, while in Niger the life expectancy is extremely low, surely much lower than in Ancient Tartessos or Egypt, at least in peacetime, still a few reach their 80s and, we assume their 90s and even maybe their 100s... not all die at their 40s suddenly!

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  Quote Quetzalcoatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Aug-2005 at 01:10

How many celebrate their 110th birthday? Statistically no one in either place. And, while in Niger the life expectancy is extremely low, surely much lower than in Ancient Tartessos or Egypt, at least in peacetime, still a few reach their 80s and, we assume their 90s and even maybe their 100s... not all die at their 40s suddenly

 Life expectancy in Niger is 42, way higher than in ancient egypt (check my pyramid for ancient egypt would be about 30 in ancient Egypt). How many reach 110 th, certainly much more in Spain than it would be in Niger and that speaking in proportion (Spain has 4 time more people than niger,  4 folds more in Spain mean equality with Niger but I'll bet my head that it would something in the order of 8 folds or more)

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  Quote Quetzalcoatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Aug-2005 at 01:12

 Your signature isn't that the one of the Israeli walls. I've seen a thread on that in another forum

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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Aug-2005 at 02:23

 

So what is your Point or do you want to prove Quetzalcoatl?

that there were no Egyptian Pharaoh called Pepi II  lived to 100 years of age?

and what makes your "statistics" about people lived in 2000 BC accurate enough to make you think its "Hardly believeable" someone like Pepi II will live to 100 years old?

 

 

 

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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Aug-2005 at 04:34
Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl

 Your signature isn't that the one of the Israeli walls. I've seen a thread on that in another forum



Yeap. It's like the Berlin wall falling but just in project... so many walls have been arisen since 1991!


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  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Aug-2005 at 08:03
I thought I would make an honourable mention for the Persian King Kosrau I, who was (so far as I know) the only monarch crowned whilst still in the uterus. Supposedly a soothsayer guaranteed the child would be a boy, lucky for him it was.

Anyway individuals could still be expected to live to a very ancient age. In the same time period we see many of the most famous Hellenic philosophers and humanists surviving until their 70s and 80s. As ruler of one of the wealthiest and most advanced civilizations of the time Pepi could expect the very highest in medical care available, living comfortably in one of the most benign existences on the planet.
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  Quote Quetzalcoatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Aug-2005 at 20:41

As ruler of one of the wealthiest and most advanced civilizations of the time Pepi could expect the very highest in medical care available, living comfortably in one of the most benign existences on the planet.

 The medical care was more likely to harm them than save them.

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  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2005 at 02:18
I would understand that if you would talk about someone else, but Egyptian Medicine was the best of it's time then.
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  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2005 at 02:24
In the case of medieval methods I would agree with you, sadly the ignorant church continually advised using leeches when it would most likely kill the person. Yet ancient Egyptian medicine was quite advanced. Much of it had only a mythical value and was little better than a placebo, but it was still able to accurately predict the gender of a child, relieve asthma and have some affect on the virulent diseases the humid climate could induce.
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  Quote Quetzalcoatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2005 at 02:47

 

 This medicine had an effect in reducing stress or act like a mild pain killer or anti-biotics but overhall it was more about luck.

About leeches, what did the medieval people use it for. Do you know leeches have real medical application. leeches produce an anti-coagulant that improve circulation. Leeches have been used to restore blood circulation into a amputated body part that has beenreattached also used to treat  skin grafts.

 

http://www.heartinfo.org/ms/news/519818/main.html



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  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2005 at 02:55
Leeches CAN be beneficial and I don't deny this for a second. The problem occurs when application of leeches is done when this is the last thing the patient needs. The principle behind applying leeches lay in a rather warped church interpretation of the teachings of Galen, who developed the theory of the bodily harmony being regulated by 4 humours. When a person was sick, the church concluded, it was because of a glut of one of the humours. The only way to relieve this was to bleed the excess humour out of the person through leeches.

In certain instances leeches are beneficial, still used today in the right cases. But in medieval times the use of leeches was taken too far, often having a counter-productive effect by draining a person of preciously needed blood. It was still practiced until relatively recently, in the 18th century we see Louis XV having leeches applied to him and nearly killing him as a result. The fact he survived such a treatment surprises me personally.


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  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2005 at 04:27

Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl

 If you have life expentancy at 18 the extreme would not exceed 60 years old

[/QUOTE

Why not? Incidentally, life expectancy is not the mean age at death.

With an expected life of 18 year old, no one can live at 200 years, the variance is way to high and improbable.

Why not? Incidentally, life expectancy is not the mean age at death.

With an expected life of 18 year old, no one can live at 200 years, the variance is way to high and improbable.

How are you calculating the variance? What defines 'too high'?

Improbable it of course is. Deliberately so. But possible. Life expectancy is a mathematical calculation based on mortality tables. Maximum life span isn't.

The two are not really comparable constructs.

[QUOTE]

if you look at the chart, no one exceeded the 80 years in early egypt,

'No one'? How do you prove that?

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