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Longest Reign!!

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  Quote Quetzalcoatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Longest Reign!!
    Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 21:28

This prove my point as time and technology progresses, the extremes are push further and further. My theory than human will reach 200 years (or perhaps 300 gene therapy excluded) is not so farfetched,a nd back by many experts in the field.

http://www.census.gov/cgi-bin/ipc/idbpyrs.pl?cty=FR&out= s&ymax=300

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  Quote Quetzalcoatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 21:20

 

 niger

http://www.census.gov/cgi-bin/ipc/idbpyrs.pl?cty=NG&out= s&ymax=300

 

 

 Spain

http://www.census.gov/cgi-bin/ipc/idbpyrs.pl?cty=SP&out= s&ymax=300

 

 I hope you can analyse the data. The data are crude but you can clearly notice the proportion of the upper extreme.



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  Quote Quetzalcoatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 21:15
Originally posted by Maju

Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl

If you have life expentancy at 18 the extreme would not exceed 60 years old (although the more primitive you are the greater the variance). Our age is partly determine by our genetics but our environment mosty determine how fast we die. Perhaps many of us have the potential to live perhaps 300 years in the best possible environment, but without the appropriate technology such as vaccination, proper diet and medication and in the future gene therapy you will die fast. The extreme are those who had exceptional genetics but still the limit put upon them by the environment will cut this life considerably. With an expected life of 18 year old, no one can live at 200 years, the variance is way to high and improbable. if you look at the chart, no one exceeded the 80 years in early egypt, and they certainly sampled a rather large number of bones and mostly the wealthiest. that's why if someone tell me that a Pharaoh reigned for more than 70 years, i would automatically dismissed such a statement as improbable, freaks exists but you don't bet on freaks, as simple as that. that the scientific approach. However you need to verify the statement, by analysing the specimen scientifically and perhaps looking at historical data to back such an extreme specimen (not shown on the chart). If you don't find such evidence, it would be more logical to deny that any king in such an early age lived that old rather than to accept.



That's not that way. If you take the demographic data from Niger for instance, you will notice that while life expectancy is around 40-50 years, there are some that reach at least 90. And when you take the data of a long-living developed country like Spain, where the life expectancy is of around 80, there are still only a few that reach 90 or more. We haven't expanded the maximum duration of life of people... we just have reduced the risks of early death. Maybe the future brings somethig different but, for what I know of the reasons of death, typical of sexual (normally pluriceluar) species, it's going to be truly difficult to defeat death. But anyhow that's another discussion.

 

nonsense, prove it Sir. Show me the age population distribution of Niger and Spain. if you don't I will.



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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 20:43
Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl

If you have life expentancy at 18 the extreme would not exceed 60 years old (although the more primitive you are the greater the variance). Our age is partly determine by our genetics but our environment mosty determine how fast we die. Perhaps many of us have the potential to live perhaps 300 years in the best possible environment, but without the appropriate technology such as vaccination, proper diet and medication and in the future gene therapy you will die fast. The extreme are those who had exceptional genetics but still the limit put upon them by the environment will cut this life considerably. With an expected life of 18 year old, no one can live at 200 years, the variance is way to high and improbable. if you look at the chart, no one exceeded the 80 years in early egypt, and they certainly sampled a rather large number of bones and mostly the wealthiest. that's why if someone tell me that a Pharaoh reigned for more than 70 years, i would automatically dismissed such a statement as improbable, freaks exists but you don't bet on freaks, as simple as that. that the scientific approach. However you need to verify the statement, by analysing the specimen scientifically and perhaps looking at historical data to back such an extreme specimen (not shown on the chart). If you don't find such evidence, it would be more logical to deny that any king in such an early age lived that old rather than to accept.



That's not that way. If you take the demographic data from Niger for instance, you will notice that while life expectancy is around 40-50 years, there are some that reach at least 90. And when you take the data of a long-living developed country like Spain, where the life expectancy is of around 80, there are still only a few that reach 90 or more. We haven't expanded the maximum duration of life of people... we just have reduced the risks of early death. Maybe the future brings somethig different but, for what I know of the reasons of death, typical of sexual (normally pluriceluar) species, it's going to be truly difficult to defeat death. But anyhow that's another discussion.


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  Quote Quetzalcoatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 20:24
Originally posted by azimuth

 

well i think living to 96 is not that weird and he was king of egypt  so you can consider that the 0.001% of that population life expectancy that time.

and Ramisses( spelling ) i think ruled for 60 years or so.

which is a good excuse for him to be considered God or something.

it will be weird when you go to some stories talking about someone rules for 20,000 years

i think that was the yellow king of china or something.

 

 

Rameses II rule for 66 years  perhaps 65 years  (1278 to 1212 B.C), to be taken with a pint of salt. Pharaohs were masters of propaganda, they did a lot of thing to be an outstanding, better than their predecessors. It was a world of proganda .  Although test reveal a 90 year old longevity, which was considered as extremely rare for the time. He may have been a freak in reality. But I do not accept the test done on the ramses as proof enough, I'm very sceptical about the method use.



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  Quote Quetzalcoatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 20:15

You're missing Maju's point. You could have a 200-year-old human at a time when life expectancy was 18. Or life expectancy could be 90 and no-one live longer that 100.

Life expectancy is affected by medical and hygienic advances and the like. Maximum life span is largely genetic, it's unaffected by evolution (since living longer - past a certain age - doesn't increase the number of children), and so far we haven't done any serious genetic engineering in humans

 No it is you that is not getting my point. If you have life expentancy at 18 the extreme would not exceed 60 years old (although the more primitive you are the greater the variance). Our age is partly determine by our genetics but our environment mosty determine how fast we die. Perhaps many of us have the potential to live perhaps 300 years in the best possible environment, but without the appropriate technology such as vaccination, proper diet and medication and in the future gene therapy you will die fast. The extreme are those who had exceptional genetics but still the limit put upon them by the environment will cut this life considerably. With an expected life of 18 year old, no one can live at 200 years, the variance is way to high and improbable. if you look at the chart, no one exceeded the 80 years in early egypt, and they certainly sampled a rather large number of bones and mostly the wealthiest. that's why if someone tell me that a Pharaoh reigned for more than 70 years, i would automatically dismissed such a statement as improbable, freaks exists but you don't bet on freaks, as simple as that. that the scientific approach. However you need to verify the statement, by analysing the specimen scientifically and perhaps looking at historical data to back such an extreme specimen (not shown on the chart). If you don't find such evidence, it would be more logical to deny that any king in such an early age lived that old rather than to accept.



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  Quote Decebal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 09:12
Originally posted by Aeolus

Originally posted by kotumeyil

What about the longest reign of a dynasty? For example it is said that Ottomans reigned for 623 years, but I don't know if this is the longest...

I had read once Zhou Dynasty of China (1122 BC - 256 BC) was the longest.

No, actually the longest ruling dynasty in the world, which continues to this day, is the Yamato dynasty of Japan. Although a precise starting date hasn't been establshed, tradition places the first emperor of the Yamato dynasty at 660BC.

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  Quote Perseas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 08:33

Originally posted by kotumeyil

What about the longest reign of a dynasty? For example it is said that Ottomans reigned for 623 years, but I don't know if this is the longest...

I had read once Zhou Dynasty of China (1122 BC - 256 BC) was the longest.

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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 07:50

 

well i think living to 96 is not that weird and he was king of egypt  so you can consider that the 0.001% of that population life expectancy that time.

and Ramisses( spelling ) i think ruled for 60 years or so.

which is a good excuse for him to be considered God or something.

it will be weird when you go to some stories talking about someone rules for 20,000 years

i think that was the yellow king of china or something.

 

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  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 07:39
Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl

Originally posted by Maju

 
It's clear that while life expectancy has improved overall since the Middle Ages some of the longest living people in the world are rural people with no or almost no medical care, so you shouldn't assume things so lightly. And things could be better in earlier times, we just don't have enough data to judge.

Also one thing is life expentacy, which may have improved and another thing is the maximum life span which hasn't changed. Maybe more much people celebrate their 80th birthday nowadays but the ones that celebrate their 100th are about the same (in proportion).

In truth as we advance the life expectancy keep increasing, some believe one day some human will be as old as 200 year old.

You're missing Maju's point. You could have a 200-year-old human at a time when life expectancy was 18. Or life expectancy could be 90 and no-one live longer that 100.

Life expectancy is affected by medical and hygienic advances and the like. Maximum life span is largely genetic, it's unaffected by evolution (since living longer - past a certain age - doesn't increase the number of children), and so far we haven't done any serious genetic engineering in humans.

Actually dude are you familiar with the word science.

Maju appears to be. You seem to be unfamiliar with the concept.

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  Quote Quetzalcoatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 05:44
Originally posted by Maju

Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl

Originally posted by Decebal

Pharaoh Pepi II reigned for a whopping 94 years! I believe he was in the 5th or 6th dynasty...

 

Hardly believeable considering in those time life expectancy wasn't higher than 35 years.



How do you know? It's clear that while life expectancy has improved overall since the Middle Ages some of the longest living people in the world are rural people with no or almost no medical care, so you shouldn't assume things so lightly. And things could be better in earlier times, we just don't have enough data to judge.

Also one thing is life expentacy, which may have improved and another thing is the maximum life span which hasn't changed. Maybe more much people celebrate their 80th birthday nowadays but the ones that celebrate their 100th are about the same (in proportion).

 

 According to old people life were so much better in the past, the sky bluer, and the food cheaper and people live longer all that is just plain nonsense. In reality, people suffer from chronic malnutrition, were shorter, had a shorter life, even with ridiculous purchasing power. In truth as we advance the life expectancy keep increasing, some believe one day some human will be as old as 200 year old.

 

Actually dude are you familiar with the word science. By analysing the bones of people in ancient egypt you can actually tell if they were malnourished or not. in reality the people didn't quite died of hunger but more of malnutrition and that even the most wealthy and most have bad hygiene and would died of water-borne diseases as well tuberculosis. This was because those people have little understanding of how a diet work and how diseases are transmitted. For instance the longest living pharoahs all have tno teeth  at a very early age of 30. In ancient egyppt a 30 year old could pretty much be similar to a 60 year old nowadays.

 

Below is the age pyramid of the ancient egyptian, you'll notice only an extreme few made it to 70-80. 100 year old people would be like a very rare phenomenon. That's why I'm very sceptical that any king would live to 70 plus in such an early age.

 

 Modern pyramid

Age pyramid

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  Quote Raider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 05:43
I think the Capeting dinasty (987-1848 with some interruption) is the first. At least in Europe.
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  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 05:26

Lets not forget Queen Mab. She ruled part of Britain from at least the first millenia BCE up to the middle ages. And being as one day in Elfhame is one year in the rest of the world. We have to times her reign by 365.

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  Quote kotumeyil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 03:48
What about the longest reign of a dynasty? For example it is said that Ottomans reigned for 623 years, but I don't know if this is the longest...
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  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 01:46
And Mithirades Eupator of Pontus ruled for 69 years.
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  Quote Belisarius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 01:01
A lot of people seem to misunderstand what life expentancy means. When a historian says that the life expectancy of a time period is 35, it does not mean that nobody lived past the age of 35. It only means that many people died young. Many babies also died, and that brought life expectancy, which is an average, down. It would have been entirely possible for an ancient Egyptian man to have lived until he was 100.
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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Aug-2005 at 22:31
Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl

Originally posted by Decebal

Pharaoh Pepi II reigned for a whopping 94 years! I believe he was in the 5th or 6th dynasty...

 

Hardly believeable considering in those time life expectancy wasn't higher than 35 years.



How do you know? It's clear that while life expectancy has improved overall since the Middle Ages some of the longest living people in the world are rural people with no or almost no medical care, so you shouldn't assume things so lightly. And things could be better in earlier times, we just don't have enough data to judge.

Also one thing is life expentacy, which may have improved and another thing is the maximum life span which hasn't changed. Maybe more much people celebrate their 80th birthday nowadays but the ones that celebrate their 100th are about the same (in proportion).



Edited by Maju

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  Quote Quetzalcoatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Aug-2005 at 21:18

Originally posted by Maju

Semi-mythical king Arganthonios of Tartessos (in southern Spain) was proverbial for his long reign.

(from Wikipedia): According to Herodotus, Arganthonios ruled Tartessia as king for 80 years, from 630 BC to 550 BC. Much of this Tartessian dynasty is told in legends, so no one knows what part is actually historical. He is said by the Greeks to have lived for 120 years while others state that he lived a longer 150 years.

He's also supposed to have given 1.5 tons of silver to a Greek sailor named Koliaos for the construction of the wall of some Greek city (Miletus?) threatened by the Persians.

 

LOL, what a nonsense if you tell me. Typical exaggeration of the ancient time.

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  Quote Quetzalcoatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Aug-2005 at 21:16

Originally posted by Decebal

Pharaoh Pepi II reigned for a whopping 94 years! I believe he was in the 5th or 6th dynasty...

 

Hardly believeable considering in those time life expectancy wasn't higher than 35 years.



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  Quote Jalisco Lancer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Aug-2005 at 19:43

For Mexico, Porfirio Diaz. He ruled the country as President over 35 years.
None of the 10 aztec emperors reigned that long.
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