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Describe a Battle

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  Quote Lannes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Describe a Battle
    Posted: 12-Aug-2004 at 16:50

I thought giving members a chance to give descriptions of some of their favorite battles would be a good way for others to get a good general idea of what went on in the battle. It would also most likely give users a scope into how battles were fought in whatever time period your battle description is from.

So, if you have a battle you would like to describe, then please do so here. Be sure to put some effort into this, but at the same time, don't feel like you have to do a play-by-play of every unit's movements. I'll start us off:


The Battle of Magnesia- This is my description of the Battle of Magnesia. It may contain errors, despite my best efforts in compiling my information, and is surely not any sort of published work, but it should give a good picture of this famous ancient battle.


Background- We are in the year of 190 BC. Rome is at war with the Hellenistic World. The battle will take place between the Seleucids under Antiochus the Great and the Romans under Scipio Africanus.

Drawing Up the Formations- The Romans used their manipular legion, against a Hellenistic formation focused on the phalanx. Unlike the earlier versions of the phalanx which used heavily armored hoplites, the the warriors(called phalangites) in the newer phalanx were lightly armored(many not armored at all) pikemen, that used the sarissa, which was a massive pike, at some times, measuring up to 6.4metres(or 21 feet). Alexander the Great had used his phalanx as something to pin down an enemy, letting his cavalry deliver the decisive charge, but due to a shortage of cavalry in Hellenistic Armies of the Second Century BC, they had come to rely on the phalanx to win battles.

---->Roman Troops and Line Up- To the far left of the Roman infantry formation, we have three rows of the Latin ala, going to the left of the ala, we have two Roman legions(of course drawn into three rows), continuing to the right, we have another three-rowed Latin ala unit. To the right of the last mentioned Latin ala, we have 3, 000 peltasts. The cavalry is positioned on the wings of the Roman infantry: the Turmae Cavalry being on the left wing, and around 3, 000 standard cavalry on the right wing.

---->Seleucid Troops and Line Up- (Since the Seleucids didn't line up in an easy to describe 'infantry in the middle, and cavalry on the wings' formation, I will simply desribe the line up from the Seleucid Right down to their Left.) Starting on the Seleucid right wing, we have 1, 200 Dahae Cavalry, next there are 10, 000 Argyraspides Infantry, following them we have 3, 000 Agema Cavalry, to their left is 3, 000 Cataphracts Cavalry, next in line are 1, 500 Galatians, next are 16, 000 phalangites(forming the main phalanx), to the left of the phalanx are another set of 1, 500 Galatians, following to the left are 4, 700 light infantrymen, then there are more of the Cataphracts Cavalry(numbering at 3, 000 on this side as well), next is 1, 000 of the Regia ala Cavalry, followed by 2, 500 Galatian Cavalry, and to the far left are 500 Tarentines Cavalry. We also have some additional units placed to the front of the Seleucid formation: There are a row of Seleucid Chariots in front of the Cataphracts, Galatian, and Tarentines Cavalries(to the left of the phalanx). In front of the phalanx, we have 54 elephants.

Brief Stage of Events in Battle- Antiochus attacks and breaks through the Roman Legion with his attacks with agema and catacphracts. He orders these cavalries to go to attack the Roman camp, but they are checked by the Roman guards left behind. Lepidus(a commanding tribune of the broken legions), gathers his broken legion together to drive the cavalry and Antiochus back. The Seleucid Chariots attack, but are driven back by missile fire, and in their retreat, they cause much confusion in their own forces. Next, the Roman cavalry moves forward, and drives the opposing cavalries to the rear. The Roman infantry advances on the phalanx, defeating the surrounding skirmishers, but the phalanx itself stands firm for the time. Some of the phalanx support elephants panic upon seeing the Roman cavalry coming from their flank, and run back into the phalanx, causing mass confusion within the phalanx, eventually Seleucid the center dissolves, and the battle is won for the Romans who are free to march to the Seleucid camp.


If errors are found, please bring them to my attention. If you are confused, and/or have questions, I will most certainly attempt to clear them up for you.

τρέφεται δέ, ὤ Σώκρατης, ψυχὴ τίνι;
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  Quote Quetzalcoatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Aug-2004 at 21:55

 It's biased because it is written by the English but it give you a good idea.The Battle of Dettingen

Battle: FONTENOY
War: War of the Austrian Succession or King Georges War
Date: 11th May 1745

Lord Charles Hay, 1st Foot Guards haranguing Les Gardes Francaises at Fontenoy by Edouard Dětaille.

Click the image to enlarge

 

  Battle of Fontenoy - Lord Charles Hay of 1st Foot Guards

Place: East of the Scheldt opposite Tournai around the villages of Fontenoy, Vezin and St Anthoine in South West Belgium.
Combatants: British, Hanoverians, Austrian and Dutch against the French.
Generals: The Duke of Cumberland (British), Marshall Konigseck (Austrian), Marshall Saxe (French).
Size of the Armies: 56,000 French against 50,000 British and allies.
Winner: The French.

British Regiments: Fontenoy is not a battle honour for British regiments.
These British regiments were present at the battle: 3rd and 4th Troops of Horse Guards, 2nd Troop of Horse Grenadier Guards, Royal Regiment of Horse, Kings Horse, 7th Horse, Royal Dragoons, Royal Scots Greys, Kings Dragoons, 4th, 6th and 7th Dragoons, 1st, 2nd and 3rd Foot Guards, 1st, 3rd, 8th, 11th, 19th, 20th, 21st, 23rd, 25th, 28th, 31st, 32nd, 33rd, 34th and the Highland Regiment.

Account:
The 1745 campaign season began with the French army commanded by Marshall Saxe laying siege to Tournai, the important Flemish medieval city lying in the south-west of Flanders on the west bank of the Scheldt. The Duke of Cumberland, the favourite second son of King George II, had been appointed to the command of the Pragmatic Army that year, at the age of 24. His Royal Highness set his army in motion to relieve the Dutch garrison in Tournai.

Marshall Saxe doubted whether French troops could stand against English and Austrians in open battle. He prepared a position in the hills to the east of the Scheldt comprising a triangle of fortified points behind which the French army would be shielded. Two of these redoubts were in the villages of St Anthoine and Fontenoy at the top of a sloping incline. The third was on the edge of a wood and called the Redoute DEu.


Maps:

The Battle of Fontenoy - a map - click to enlarge

Maps of the Battle of Fontenoy.

Click to enlarge Image

  The battle of fontenoy - click to enlarge map

The Pragmatic Army approached the base of the incline through Vezin and other villages, that had been set ablaze by French skirmishers. It was apparent that the French were occupying St Anthoine and Fontenoy but the whereabouts of the rest of the French army was uncertain.

 

English cavalry ventured onto the incline and came under cannon fire. General Campbell, the lieutenant general of the horse, was killed and the cavalry withdrew to take no further part in the battle.
The army camped on the incline and the next morning formed up for the attack. Two columns of English Foot were formed under the command of Lieutenant General Sir John Ligonier. Their task was to advance up the incline and assault whatever lay over the brow. Fontenoy could be seen on the left and opened fire with its cannon on the foot. Then the hitherto unnoticed Redoute DEu was espied on the columns right, at the edge of the extensive Barry Wood, as it too opened fire.

Brigadier Ingoldby was deputed to take the Redoute DEu before the columns attacked, but he prevaricated and called for artillery. Ingoldby was no doubt daunted at the prospect of assaulting the redoubt with foot alone. In spite of increasingly peevish directions from His Royal Highness, Ingoldby failed to move.

Finally Ligoniers two columns were ordered to advance even though both fortified positions remained intact, one on each flank subjecting the columns to damaging cannon fire.

The two English columns of foot reached the top of the incline and found the whole French army arrayed before them on the plateau. The English Foot were then attacked by waves of infantry, horse and dragoons. Only when the attack was made by fresh regiments of Irish Foot in the service of France did the columns finally give way and retreat back down the incline, ending the battle.

In the meantime the Highland Regiment had committed itself to frenzied but unsuccessful attacks on Fontenoy.

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  Quote Quetzalcoatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Aug-2004 at 21:58

Dresden

26-27 August, 1813

The Napoleonic Guide's Suggested Tours

Following the battles of Lutzen and Bautzen, Napoleon Bonaparte - needing to reorganise and resupply his armies - accepted a 10-week truce from the Allies.

The decision was a poor one as the Allied powers - Austria, Russia and Prussia - had more available manpower and finished the truce period far stronger than they had been.

The French now found themselves facing an enemy of well over 400,000 men.

In the north, former marshal Jean-Baptiste Bernadotte had 100,000 troops, Field Marshal Gebhard Blucher commanded a similar size army in the south-east and General Schwarzenberg had 240,000 men approaching from the south.

One of the key cities for the campaign was Dresden - the capital of Saxony - and now the opposing forces moved to occupy it first. As it happened, Marshal Gouvion St Cyr and a corps of 20,000 got there before the other forces.

The marshal found the city was poorly fortified and the French worked feverishly to improve the position. Within a day, however, the defences were to be tested by some 160,000 enemy troops.

At dawn on 26 August, Schwarzenberg sent his army against St Cyr's men but, fortunately for the French, the attacks were poorly coordinated and were not pressed home to take advantage of the seven-to-one odds.

The French fought hard and gave ground reluctantly. With casualties mounting quickly, the Allies hesitated and during the lull in fighting Bonaparte arrived at the head of more than 50,000 men.

Confusion now swept the Allied high command and while it decided to withdraw - the policy being not to take on the French emperor himself - the field commanders sent in another series of attacks against Dresden.

After a solid day's fighting, St Cyr's exhausted men found the renewed Allies push too much to withstand and they fell back from key positions. However, Bonaparte was on hand and sent his fresh Imperial Guard on to the attack. Within five hours, they had retaken all the positions lost during the day of fighting.

With reinforcements arriving throughout the stormy night, dawn saw Bonaparte with up to some 150,000 to send against the Allies.

Pinning them in the centre, the French emperor then threw considerable forces, some 35,000 men, against each Allied wing.

On the Allied right, Marshal Mortier smashed through and turned the flank, while at the other end of the enemy line Marshal Murat was even more damaging - killing, capturing or routing 24,000 enemy troops.

Nightfall saw the Allies decide to withdraw, leaving behind some 40,000 casualties - including General Jean Moreau who was killed by a cannonball. The French suffered some 10,000 dead and injured.

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2004 at 15:11

CHANCELLORSVILLE

The Beginning
April 26 - May 1, 1863

        Morale in the Federal Army of the Potomac rose with the appointment of Joseph to command. He reorganized the army and formed a cavalry corps. He wanted to strike at Lee's army while a sizable portion was detached under Longstreet in the Suffolk area. The Federal commander left a substantial force at Fredericksburg to tie Lee to the hills where Burnside had been defeated. Another Union force disappeared westward, crossed the Rapidan and Rappahannock rivers, and converged on Fredericksburg from the west. The Federal cavalry would open the campaign with a raid on Lee's line of communications with the Confederate capital at Richmond. Convinced that Lee would have to retreat, trusted that his troops could defeat the Confederates as they tried to escape his trap.
       On April 29, 's cavalry and three army corps crossed Kelly's Ford. His columns split, with the cavalry pushing to the west while the army corps secured Getmanna and Ely's fords. The next day these columns reunited at Chancellorsville. Lee reacted to the news of the Federals in the Wilderness by sending General Richard H. Anderson's division to investigate. Finding the Northerners massing in the woods around Chancellorsville; Anderson commenced the construction of earthworks at Zoan Church. Confederate reinforcements under Stonewall Jackson marched to help block the Federal advance, but did not arrive until May 1. The Confederates had no intention of retreating as had predicted.
       Hooker's troops rested at Chancellorsville after executing what is often considered to be the most daring march of the war. They had slipped across Lee's front undetected. To some the hardest part of the campaign seemed to be behind them; to others, the most difficult had yet to be encountered. The cavalry raid had faltered in its initial efforts and 's main force was trapped in the tangles of the Wilderness without any cavalry to alert them of Lee's approach.

The End
May 1-6 1863

       As the Federal army converged on Chancellorsville, General expected Lee to retreat from his forces, which totaled nearly 115,000. Although heavily outnumbered with just under 60,000 troops - Lee had no intention of retreating. The Confederate commander divided his army: one part remained to guard Fredericksburg, while the other raced west to meet 's advance. When the van of 's column clashed with the Confederates' on May 1, pulled his troops back to Chancellorsville, a lone tavern at a crossroads in a dense wood known locally as The Wilderness. Here took up a defensive line, hoping Lee's need to carry out an uncoordinated attack through the dense undergrowth would leave the Confederate forces disorganized and vulnerable.
       To retain the initiative, Lee risked dividing his forces still further, 'retaining two divisions to focus 's attention, while Stonewall Jackson marched the bulk of the Confederate army west across the front of the Federal line to a position opposite its exposed right flank. Jackson executed this daring and dangerous maneuver throughout the morning and afternoon of May 2. Striking two hours before dusk, Jackson's men routed the astonished Federals in their camps. In the gathering darkness, amid the brambles of the Wilderness, the Confederate line became confused and halted at 9 p.m. to regroup. Riding in front of the lines to reconnoiter, Stonewall Jackson was ally shot and seriously wounded by his own men. Later that night, his left arm was amputated just below the shoulder.
       On May 3, Jackson's successor, General J.E.B. Stuart, initiated the iest day of the battle when attempting to reunite his troops with Lee's. Despite an obstinate defense by the Federals, ordered them to withdraw north of the Chancellor House. The Confederates were converging on Chancellorsville to finish when a message came from Jubal Early that Federal troops had broken through at Fredericksburg. At Salem Church, Lee threw a cordon around these Federals, forcing them to retreat across the Rappahannock. Disappointed, Lee returned to Chancellorsville, only to find that had also retreated across the river.
       Chancellorsville is considered Lee's greatest victory, although the Confederate commander's daring and skill met little resistance from the inept generalship of Joseph . Using cunning, and dividing their forces repeatedly, the massively outnumbered Confederates drove the Federal army from the battlefield. The cost had been frightful. The Confederates suffered 14,000 casualties, while inflicting 17,000. Perhaps the most damaging loss to the Confederacy was the of Lee's "right arm," Stonewall Jackson, who died of pneumonia on May 10 while recuperating from his wounds.
Source: "The Atlas of the Civil War" by James M. McPherson

Note:  This is a very compressed version of the battle, and it does not at all demonstrate the incredible complexity common of all American Civil War battles.



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  Quote ihsan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2004 at 18:24
Hmm, perhaps I can describe a few battles from the early Ottoman era...
[IMG]http://img50.exs.cx/img50/6148/ger3.jpg">

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  Quote demon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Aug-2004 at 14:19
Battle of Myong Riang straight

Year: 1597
Date: September 16

Background:
100,000 Japanese marines in around 200 ships lead by Gurushima Michihoosa were sent from Japan destined to Seoul. Yi Sun shin, whose fleet were composed of only 12 ships, no turtle ships, decided to crush the army once for all- at a straight by the name Myong Riang(Myong Lan).

Place: Myong Riang was a narrow straight(average of 500m wide). Its narrowest place has width of only 300m. However, both sides of that place is covered by sharp coastal rocks, leaving only about 130m width for a ship to sail safely. In addition, its narrow features allowed water currents to go as fast as 11 knots.

Anterior Events

-July 15th- When Yee was in trial, Yee's substitute lead his navy, which was destroyed almost completely by the Japnaese. Only 12 ships survived. No turtle ships survived.

-September 9th- While Yee got innocent from trial and tried to regroup his men, Japanese spies confirm that Yee had only 12 ships.

-September 16(Date of Myong Riang battle)- Japanese Advance! 133 Elite Royal Navy followed by a second wave of 70 ships.

Plot:
Japanese general was too cocky and had his pride blinding his sight. He knew that his 133 Elite navy would destroy merely 12 ships. The time was around 12:00 morning. They were moving at counter current.

So he Charged straightly for the straight. He was thinking of surrounding Korean navy with the T cross, but he realized that the straight was too narrow and the ships on the side were getting trapped on the sharp boulders, so the ships had to pass one by one.

When the ships on the front were coming out, they saw Koreans ships turn, and shoot their missiles. Infantry from the deck of the ship were also launching arrows. The ships were not on the position of retreat because other japanese ships followed behind. They were trapped between hell and hell.

By 1 hr, 20 Japanese ships were sunk.

After 20 of the first wave ships were sunk, the Koreans witnessed the Japanese General, whose ship had feathers on the flag tip, red all over.

Yi ordered one of his comarades to send 3 ships on offensive. They surrounded the ship, and unleashed hell. They saw one reddish guy with silk clothes fall. He was Michihoosa, dead. His neck was soon stuck in a Korean pike, so that All Japanese could see.

Now the time turned to around 3:00. The water current was reversing, with faster current. Yi issued the rest of 9 ships to join the carnage. THe Japanese ships now were turning their heads. But the water current was sucking them into the Koreans.

The Japanese ships clashed with the ones behind. Some were driven to the sides, into the sharp rocks. THe current reached 11 knots. Ships that dreamed of an escape were driven back to the straight, into the rocks. Around 100 ships were sunk. Corpses everywhere. A true bloody sea. Only those ships waiting on second wave managed to run back, they who also suffered damage from currents and spontaneous Korean rockets.

Battle was over. This defeat forced Japanese forces to return to their bases.

Casualties:

Korea: ship=none, Men- like 30
Japan: ship=133, Men- Uncountable

Winner: Korea


Myong Riang


Missiles used by Koreans in this battle.
Grrr..
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  Quote Jagatai Khan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Sep-2004 at 06:21

The Battle of Magnesia 

Is this Manisa???

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  Quote Lannes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Sep-2004 at 17:28
Originally posted by Jagatai Khan

The Battle of Magnesia 

Is this Manisa???

Yep, Manisa is the modern day name for the city.

τρέφεται δέ, ὤ Σώκρατης, ψυχὴ τίνι;
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  Quote Tiamatty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-May-2005 at 09:38

The Battle of Chibi (208 CE, southern China, possibly just north of Wulin)

Also known as the Battle of Red Cliffs. Fought between the forces of Cao Cao against the combined forces of Sun Quan and Liu Bei.

Cao Cao had a supposed army of 830, 000, though it was probably closer to 200, 000. Sun Quan and Liu Bei had a combined army of 50, 000. In charge of the combined forces was Zhou Yu, vassal of Sun Quan.

Cao Cao had conquered northern China, and begun marching his army south. He easily took the Jing province from the heir of Liu Biao, and was ready to attack Sun Quan's territory (later to be called the state/kingdom of Wu). Sun Quan was unsure of what to do, as his army was much smaller than Cao Cao, but decided to fight on the advice of his chief advisors, Zhou Yu and Lu Su, as well as Liu Bei's advisor Zhuge Liang. The forces were arrayed opposite each other on the Yangtze, with Cao Cao stationed at Jiangling. Cao Cao's forces were mostly from the north, so were unused to naval battles. He'd managed to hire a couple of experienced naval commanders in Jing, so he had them train his forces. At the same time, he sent a spy to Zhou Yu's camp. Zhou Yu saw through the spy, but decided to use the guy to his advantage. He held a banquet, where he got drunk, and invited the spy back to his own tent. He had left a couple of fake letters, supposedly from the naval commanders in Cao Cao's army, saying they wanted to defect. The spy thought they were real, and relayed the information back to Cao Cao, who then executed the supposed traitors. Zhou Yu then took a boat, covered it in straw, and sailed near Cao's fleet. Cao ordered arrows be fired at the boat. The arrows stuck into the straw, and when Zhou Yu returned to his own camp, it was with many of Cao Cao's arrows - one of the best tactics ever, in my opinion. Cao Cao then sent a couple more spies as supposed traitors. Zhou Yu whipped one of his top generals, Huang Gai, in front of the other Wu generals, and the spies. The spies sent word of what they saw, and Huang Gai sent a letter of defection to Cao Cao. Meanwhile, Cao Cao had chained his ships together to steady them, and thus reduce seasickness in his northern troops. Cao Cao's army was also suffering from various diseases that the southerners had gotten used to over the years, but which the northeners had never come across, making his army still less effective than it could've been.

Eventually, the day came for the attack. Cao Cao advanced his fleet, but found a south-east wind kept him from advancing well, as well as making arrows less effective. He called for a retreat, but since the ships were trained together, an orderly retreat was impossible. To make it worse, Huang Gai's defection was faked - it was only a ploy to get a ship near Cao Cao's fleet. The ship was full of straw, and when Huang Gai's ship neared, the straw was lit on fire. With the south-east wind, the fire ship swiftly rammed right into Cao Cao's fleet, and the wind made the flame even more effective, spreading it throughout Cao's fleet. Zhou Yu followed this up with an all-out attack, decimating Cao's forces, and ambushes set up in advance by Zhuge Liang kept Cao from being able to rally his remaining troops for a counter-attack.

Thus proving that size doesn't always matter. Quality beats quantity; a superior strategy can destroy an army of any size.

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  Quote Mosquito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-May-2005 at 16:31

The battle of Kirkholm 1605.Sweden vs Poland-Lithuania

The swedes: about 8500 infantry and 2500 cavalry (some sources say Swedes had over 3000 cavalry) and 11 guns. But i saw also books which were saying that Swedes had 6000 infantry and 5000 cavalry.

Poles and Lithuanians: about 3500 soldiers including 1000 infantry, 3 canons, 

Swedish commander: king Karl IX

Polish-Lithuanian commander: hetman John Charles Chodkiewicz

Place: Kirholm, near Riga

Note: different sources give different numbers of polish and swedish forces. The numbers given for Swedes vary from 11.000 to 14.000. The numbers for Poles vary from 3.500 to 4000 soldiers. Some sources claim that Poles had 3 canons, other say that Poles had no single canon. Same problem is with the swedish casualties, different sources give different numbers, from 6000 dead swedish soldiers up to 9500. Poles lost about 100 soldiers killed and 200-300 wounded. Poles also lost few hundrieds well trained battle horses.During the frontal assault the Polish cavalrymen were hiding behind their horses heads, which lead to negligible Polish-Lithuanian losses. However, the losses in horses proved vital to further usage of the heavy cavalry in the war with Sweden.

The Swedes deployed on a ridge north of Duna. The poles on another ridge opposite the Swedes. In between open ground.The swedish right wing was led by the count of Mansfeld, the center by Anders Lennartsson and the right wing by Henrik Brandt. The swedes stood in four lines . The first with seven battallions of infantry, the second with six battallions of cavalry, the third with six battalions of infantry and the fourth with five battalions of cavalry. The guns in front.

The polish commander Chodkiewicz had deployed his much smaller force as follows. The right wing under Johan Sapieha with 650 cavalrymen in two lines, a center in one line under Wojna and a left wing of 1200 cavalrymen under Tomas Dabrowa in four or five lines. A small reserve under Teodor Laski with 200 cavalrymen and 1040 infantrymen in behind. The duke of Kurland soon reinforced the poles with 300 cavalrymen.

The polish commander tried to fool the swedes into abandoning their advantagous position on the ridge and to advance into the open ground. After a number of attempts he succeded. The Swedes had reached as far as a small creek between the ridges when the poles charged.

Wojnas cavalry managed to stop the swedish infantry that used pikes and muskets on the attacking cavalry with lances and pistols. The swedish cavalry on the flanks continued against their counterparts. Henrik Brandts cavalrymen were unable to stand against Sapiehas hussars and folded. Karl IX attacked with his cavalry reserve and slammed into Sapiehas unprotected flank. Brandt turned his men and attacked as well. Sapieha retreated.

In the mean time Dabrowa had driven Mansfeldts cavalrymen back and was now in pursuit. The interlocked cavalryunits slammed into the swedish infantry that was disrupted and trampled. Wojna and Dabrowa together attacked the swedish infantry that was now trying to deploy for defense at a churchstonewall. Chodkiewicz now ordered Laski to attack Brandts flank with his cavalry and his infantry was to take the church.

Laskis furious cavalry attack drove the disorganized swedish cavalry into their own infantry again. Trampled and disrupted as 2000 swedish and polish cavalrymen slammed into them they fought back as best they could. Karl IX had lost his horse and was lightly wounded by a weak swordhack in his head when a estonian nobleman, Hendrich der Wrede, offered him his horse so the king could escape. Wrede was killed.

By now the swedish cavalry had fled the field. The abandoned infantry was at the mercy of the poles that offered none. Lennartsson, von Hinkeman and duke Fredrik died with their men with pikes in hands. 

The sources says that Poles after short battle were going in pursuit after escaping Swedes untill evening which finally ended massacre. Polish army captured about 900 prisoners, all the canons and 60 banners.



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  Quote TheodoreFelix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jun-2005 at 22:39
The Battle of Torvioll
Scanderbeg; 15,000
Ali Pasha of the Ottoman Empire; 45,000


(Described by Catholic world book)
During the war of Albanian Independance, the Turks, except toward the end, made the fatal blunder of sending immense armies, consisting in some cases of more then 200,000 men, into a country they could only be maintained for a single and brief campaign,and to fight a general who was sure, from his experience and bravery, skill, and thousand rough knowledge of every torrent mountain pass, road, valley, to turn defeat into an overwhelming disaster

It was thus that the army of Ali Pasha was drawn by a wily maneuver into a narrow district only ninety miles from Kruja(an Albanian city) and opening into the very heart of Albania. The upper end was very contracted, and here Scanderbeg drew up his main body of troops, to the number of ten thousand, which were posted in three divisions en echelon. As soon as the enemy was well engaged in the valley three thousand horsemen, who had been watching their slow advance, came down at it's lower end, which had been left quite unguarded, while fifteen hundred irregular infantry lay in ambush on either side amidst the woody acclivities. As soon as the Turks came up to the Albanians they halted, tried to deploy, but could not, repeatedly charged and swept up in heavy columns against the small but solid masses who evenly filled the gap and made it impossible to flank them. The Turks after a while began to waver and fall into great disorder. Ali Pasha blundered.

The Albanians now took the offensive. The signal-clarions sounded and,. while the Turks were attacked in front, the cavalry from the lower end of the valley charged them in the rear and the infantry that lay in ambush came rushing down on both sides with terrific cries and sword in had to complete their discomfiture. It was now a slaughter; and although the battle lasted only four hours altogether, over twenty thousand Turks were killed or wounded. Few prisoners-no more then two thousand-were taken. The rest of the enemy, under cover of darkness and from sheer exhaustion on the part of the victors, escaped through the now open passage at the lower end of the valley.

Aftermath;

After Torvioll, Murad was so horrified at the defeat thet he immediately sent deligations to settle peace between the Albanians and Ottoman Empire. According to stories, Murad tried to sweet talk Scanderbeg by reminding him how he had raised him. But the terms of peace were called "humiliating" by the Albanians and the peace treaty was torn up. I don't know exactly what the peace treaty involved but all I know is that it really infuriated Scanderbeg and his alliance. I bet it had to do with grant of autonomy or something(one thing Catholic Geg Albanians would get later due to the sheer difficult time the Turks had suppressing them), either way Scanderbeg is said to have wrote back to the Sultan saying complete freedom or nothing. It amazes me how these guys, who were living in a plot of land 1/100th the size of the Ottoman Empire had the audacity to call any peace treaty SENT by the empire humiliating.

--------------------------------------

Background- We are in the year of 190 BC. Rome is at war with the Hellenistic World. The battle will take place between the Seleucids under Antiochus the Great and the Romans under Scipio Africanus.


Scipio was "sick" at that battle and the command went to his brother, forgot his name. The strategy was most likely Scipio's and the sudden sickness was probably Scipio giving the glory of a great victory to his brother. Since he was already glory full.


Edited by Iskender Bey ALBO
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  Quote Lannes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jun-2005 at 22:57

Scipio was "sick" at that battle and the command went to his brother, forgot his name. The strategy was most likely Scipio's and the sudden sickness was probably Scipio giving the glory of a great victory to his brother. Since he was already glory full.

Actually, Flavius Cornelius Scipio was the army's commander (he was the consul).  Nevertheless, command of the army in the battle was meant to go to Africanus.  As you stated, he got sick, but instead of his brother Lucius taking control, command went to one Gnaeus Domitius.



Edited by Lannes
τρέφεται δέ, ὤ Σώκρατης, ψυχὴ τίνι;
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  Quote TheodoreFelix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jun-2005 at 22:59
Ah, okay thanks for clearly that out for me.
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  Quote Spartan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jun-2005 at 00:29
Regarding Magnesia,

Yes, Scipio Africanus took no part in this battle. But he was the
actual commander for the campaign, and he did indeed become very ill,
and departed before the fighting commenced. He was invited here as a
legate by his younger brother, and returned to help with the negotiations
with Antiochus. But his younger brother knew full well who was the
greater, more experienced commander. It was during this time that the
Scipios came under fire from Cato, who accused them of
corruption regarding the war renumerations. Nothin is borne out of the
evidence we have. It is also at this time and this part of the world where
Scipio Africanus met the exiled Hannibal at Ephesus, a little
south of Magnesia, in their famous meeting. But the parley might be an
apocryphal story from Livy. But a romantic one.

Scipio's younger brother's name was Lucius Cornelius Scipio ,
who would recieve the sobriquet Asiagenes for his victory. But, yes,
as Lannes stated, his command was purely nominal, and when
Africanus fell ill, direct command went to the adjutant Gnaues
Domitius
. One detail you missed, Lannes, is that King Eumenes
of Pergumon and the Achaeans, totaling some 4,000, was here on the
Roman side.

Lannes, I have never heard of a Flavius Cornelius Scipio. Who was
he? (specifically).

It was an impressive victory for the Romans, and the legion had shown
itself markedly superior to Antiochus' phalanx, which was not the
quick maneuvering one of Philip II and Alexander (as Lannes
pointed out - no distinctive cavalry). But the Romans made short work of
a considerably larger army.

I'm going to come up with a great battle soon. Sooo much to surmise .

A great amalgam of battles could show up on this thread.

Great choice with Chancellorsville, king Jeff 2, which was without doubt
Lee's greatest victory, and one of the most daring displays of
generalship in history. Losing Stonewall Jackson, though, was
something the South could not afford, while the Union could afford heavy
casualties.

Thanks, Spartan JKM

Edited by Spartan
"A ship is safe in the harbor; but that's not why ships are built"
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  Quote Lannes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jun-2005 at 11:33

Originally posted by Spartan

Lannes, I have never heard of a Flavius Cornelius Scipio. Who was
he? (specifically).

Someone my memory came up with.  Lucius Cornelius Scipio was what I meant to say.  Thanks for catching that.

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  Quote vulkan02 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jun-2005 at 15:36
Battle of Brvellir
Battle of Brvellir
Conflict Scandinavian conflicts
Date ca. 750
Place Near Brviken (Brvik), East Gtaland
Result Danish defeat
Combatants
Sweden Denmark
Commanders
Sigurd Ring Harald Hildetand
Strength
Unknown Unknown
Casualties
Unknown Unknown

The Battle of Brvellir or the Battle of Brvalla was a legendary battle that took place on the Brvellir between Sigurd Ring, king of Sweden and the Geats of West Gtaland, and Harald Hildetand, king of Denmark and the Geats of East Gtaland.

Sources

This battle is said to have taken place in the mid 8th century and it is retold in several sources, such as the Icelandic Sagas Hervarar saga, Bsa saga ok Herrauds and Sgubrot af Nokkrum. It is most extensively described in the Danish Gesta Danorum. According to the Swedish journalist and best selling historian Herman Lindquist, the Rk Stone relates of this battle.

Cause

Harald had inherited Sweden from his maternal grandfather Ivar Vidfamne, but ruled Denmark and East Gtaland, whereas his subordinate king Sigurd Ring was the ruler of Sweden and West Gtaland. According to legend Harald Hildetand realised that he was growing old (150) and may die of old age and so never go to Valhalla. He consequently asked Sigurd if he would let him leave this life gloriously in a great battle.

Preparation

According to Saxo Grammaticus, both hosts prepared for seven years, and mustered armies of 200 000 men! Harald was joined by the legendary heroes Ubbe of Friesland, Uvle Brede, Are the One-eyed, Dag the Fat, Hroi Whitebeard and Hothbrodd the indomitable as well was 300 shieldmaidens led by Hed, Visna and Hedborg. Sigurd recruited the legendary heroes Starkad, Egil the Bald, Grette the Evil (a Norwegian), Blig Bignose, Einar the Fatbellied and Erling Snake. They were joined by scores of Norwegians, Saxons, Angles, Frisians, Irish, Rus', Finns, etc. Whole forests were chopped down in order to build 3000 longships to transport the Swedes. Harald's Danes had built so many ships that they could walk across The Sound!

Location

The location of the Brvellir was formerly disputed. According to a local tradition it took place at lake snen in Smalandia, but according to Hervarar saga it is described as Brvelli eystra Gautlandi (i.e. Brvalla in East Gtaland) and in Sgubrot af Nokkrum the battle is said to have taken place south of Kolmrden which separated Sweden (i.e. Svealand) from East Gtaland and where Brviken is located: ... Kolmerkr, er skilr Svj ok Eystra-Gautland ... sem heitir Brvk.

Battle

According to Saxo Grammaticus: The 200 000 warriors met at Brvalla, and when the kings had sacrificed to Odin the battle commenced. Ubbe slew three princes among whom were the legendary warriors Agnar and Ragvald the Wise Counselor. Ubbe broke through all the Swedish lines, but fell at last riddled with 144 arrows during a duel with Starkad. Then Starkad fought savagely against the shieldsmaidens whereupon his jaw was cut off. However, biting his own beard he managed to keep it in place. He then cut the arm off Visna who held the Danish flag. Vedbjorg fell fighting Thorkel the Stubborn, who won after "a lot of wounds and talking". The 157-year-old Harald, led his Danish and Geatish allies on the line of battle in a chariot, cutting wildly with swords in both hands. Finally, Odin himself came down to take Harald home to Valhalla.

Outcome

Sigurd won the battle and became the sovereign ruler of all of Sweden and Denmark. 40 000 men had died.

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  Quote vulkan02 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jun-2005 at 15:57

Swedish Polish War 1600 to 1609

Military Operations, 1605
THE BATTLE OF KIRCHOLM

The Swedish council of war on 26th decided to move with all their forces to Kircholm in order to surprise the Poles in the night. They left only a few hundred soldiers to guard the camp. At about 22:00 the Swedes 10,700 strong - 8,200 infantry 2,500 cavalry and 11 canon - left their camp but marched during a down pour. The watch alerted the Polish-Lithuanian camp and because of this the Swedes waited for sunrise (approx 5:30) on 27th before forming up on the heights above the village Kircholm. They stood facing the Polish-Lithuanian army which was on the opposing heights across a dried river bed which was marshy only at its northern edge. The Swedes formed themselves in four lines in a checkerboard pattern alternately cavalry and infantry. The latter were positioned in 13 small tercios - squares of some few hundred men (7 in the first and 6 in the third lines) while the cavalry formed the second (6 squadrons) and the fourth (5 squadrons) lines.

The Swedes began to dig in, they positioned their infantry opposite the enemy and the cavalry behind ready to move onto the wings or between the gaps in the infantry. So that they could attack the Polish-Lithuanian cavalry once it had lost its impetus in battle with the infantry. Due to the great depth of formation the rear lines moving to the wings would parry any outflanking maneuvers.

Neither side wanted to loose its advantageous position on the higher ground above the valley and both waited for the enemy to attack. Wanting to provoke the Swedes to attack Chodkiewicz positioned his forces in a few lines to try and give the impression that his forces were even smaller than in reality. This did not however have the desired effect as Charles did indeed dread moving down into the path of the hussar lances.

Finally in the afternoon Hetman ordered his screening arquebusiers to withdraw suddenly and obviously, in an attempt to give the impression it was the start of the retreat of the whole army. Charles on seeing this and fearing this movement of his weaker enemy as a real retreat ordered his forces to attack. Giving up his caution he resigned from his intended defend-attack tactic and moved his cavalry to the wings, so as to provide for more options in attack. Most of the cavalry he moved to his left wing wanting to push the enemy against the river Dzwina. As the Swedes made their initial maneuvers Chodkiewicz, concerned with his army's morale, ordered a group of camp followers, whom had previously sent North, to reveal themselves. They moved south towards this main forces in a cloud of dust and with much noise to give the impression of arriving reinforcements from Krzysztof Radziwill.

Until now the Poles and Lithuanians had stood in a column and now they deployed into battle order. Chodkiewicz had 3,700 to 4,000 men of which 2,700-3,000 cavalry and around 1,000 infantry. This was prior to the arrival of 300 reiters in the service of Prince Frederick Kettler of Courland - who arrived crossing the river and taking up positions behind the Polish-Lithuanian centre. Though the Hetman had significantly weaker forces he managed to achieve a numerical superiority on his;

  • Left wing led by Tomasz (Thomas) Dabrowa comprised 1,200 to 1,300 cavalry - 100-400 hussars, 200 reiters, 700-900 cossack cavalry and the Tartars in the camp - in 4 lines. The edge of the left wing was shielded by the fortified camp position on the heights of the Dwina river bank and held by 2 cannon and 4 banners of Tartars (350). Mansfeld had 1,000 reiters to oppose them.
  • The Polish centre under Wincent (Vincent) Wojna stood in two lines and comprised 1,000 infantry with 5 cannon, 300 hussars and 300 Courlandian reiters against 8,200 Swedes with 11 cannon under Lennartsson.
  • On the right wing in 4 lines stood 700 cavalry almost solely hussars, though including 100 Cossacks of Jan Piotr Sapieha, against 1,500 retiers led by Henri Brandt.
  • The main reserve under Teodor (Theodore) Lacki numbered 200-400 hussars.

Chodkiewicz aimed at an outflanking on the left wing so as to force the Swedes away from the river rather than pushing them against it. This was the preferred option in order to allow the Polish-Lithuanian horsemen to take advantage of the drier ground and maximise use of their best qualities - the impetus - of full gallop charges. The wet meadows of the old riverbed to the north did not provide the opportunity of launching a forceful outflanking on that wing, limiting the fighting to a relatively confined area. Further more the wet meadows did not pose for the Swedish cavalry the same problems as they did not use the full gallop charge.

However the right Polish-Lithuanian wing was fairly strong, proportionately stronger than the 'tying-in' wing at Kokenhausen in 1601. Therefore it was certainly intended to be an active wing. Not having superiority in impetus or numbers they had some advantage due to their shallower line allowing the use of more lances. While the right wing and center were primarily formed of heavy cavalry (hussars and reiters) best for breaking through enemy formations in frontal attacks, so the left wing was primarily Cossack cavalry, so superb at maneuvers on enemy flanks.

When the Swedish infantry reached the base of the valley and began to climb the opposite slope, the Polish-Lithuanian artillery opened fire and as the Swedes drew nearer so did the infantry. Next from between the gaps moved the hussars followed by the Courlandian reiters, attacking in full gallop charges leading to vicious fighting with the Swedish infantry.

The retreat of the arquebusiers had lured the Swedish right wing into the fire of the Polish-Lithuanian Camp. The distracted cavalry was then attacked frontally by Dabrowa's main forces and at the same time outflanked by the Tartars and were quickly broken. Cavalry struck the rear and side of the Swedish right wing tercio who were busy in battle with the Polish-Lithuanian centre.

The fighting on Sapieha's wing lasted longer. Brandt's reiters moved somewhat later than the rest of the Swedish forces. Sapieha waited, while the wet meadows were passed, where his hussars would have lost impetus. When the Swedish cavalry moved onto firmer ground, Sapieha attacked with his first line smashing the enemy and pushed them onto the wetlands, however the Swedish second line repulsed the hussars, who had not managed to reform after the chase. When the Swedes reached the dry ground they were struck by Sapieha's second line, who then also repulsed Brandt's reorganised first line. Chodkiewicz seeing the success of Dabrowa and the tying up of the Swedish centre, and since the Swedes had also engaged all their forces, decided to use his reserve to outflank them on Sapieha's wing. Lacki struck the side of Brandt's reiters and crushed them completely.

The routing Swedes fell into the left wing of their own infantry who were already retreating and further disordered them. When Lennartsson (centre's commander) was killed part of the retreating tercios collapsed. At least half of the infantry became surrounded by the Polish-Lithuanian cavalry and the rest met defeat in the pursuit, which continued almost to Riga.

The Swedish losses were around 6,000, of which only a few hundred were prisoners. Particularly heavy losses were suffered by the infantry, well over half their original strength. The Poles and Lithuanians lost some 100 dead and a few hundred injured, mostly in battle with the infantry. The remainder of the Swedish infantry escaped onto ships at Dynemunt, while reiters led by Mansfeld retreated to Parnawy. The unpaid Polish-Lithuanian army revolted and Chodkiewicz was unable to take further advantage of this superb victory.


 

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  Quote TheodoreFelix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2005 at 14:12

Unlike Vulkans copy and paste, , this was written by your trully. You can find it in my "Scipio's Conquest of Spain" topic in the Mediterreanean forum;

The Battle of Ilipa 206B.C.

Publius Cornelius Scipio: 45,000 infantry, 3,000 cavalry
Hasdubral Gisgo, Mago and Masinissa: 50,000-70,000 infantry, 4,000 cavalry, 32 elephants



The Carthaginians were now feeling the pressure in Spain. In 207 the officer sent to replace Hasdubral, Hanno, was caught off guard by a Roman column. Worse yet, controlling the Spanish tribes mowas becoming more and more difficult due to the heavy Roman presence. Little by little the tribes were showing allegiance to Rome and deserting their Punic oppressors. Poybius stated that before the battle of Baecula only two leaders called Scipio king. Now an entire assembly came to honor him with this title. In a show of restraint and a clearheadedness Polybius stated that Scipio declined the title and said that he replied by saying that;

Quote:
"...he told that he wished to be called kingly by them, and actually to be kingly, but that he did not wish to be king or to be called so by any one. Having said this, he ordered them henceforth to call him General."



Hasdubral Gisgo(not to be mistaken for Hasubral Barca, the general at Baecula and future Mataurus) had made a show of force in southwest Spain, near Gades. Dispersing his garrison around the cities. Scipio ordered his brother Lucius to take the city of Orongis to ensure a Roman victory before winter came.
By summer 206 Gisgo decided on a major offensive to overwhelm the young general. Polybius stated that Gisgo's army was as high as 74,000. With 70,000 making up the infantry force and 4,000 being cavalry. Scipio had 45,000 infantry and 3,000 cavalry only half of which was made up of his trained and disciplined legions. Much of Scipio's army had been weakened by the need to garrison his newly acquired territory. Once again, the later Livy gives a different number; stating Gisgo's army was 50,000 infantry and 4,500 cavalry both stated that Gisgo had about 30 elephants.

Gisgo moved near Ilipa setting up camp in a high defensive position as a clear message to the Romans that he had come to fight. Near the very grave of his father, it is very likely that Scipio's mind wondered there, the very men whom made up half of his army had betrayed his father. He then decided to meet Hasdubral at his location, setting up camp on the foot of the opposing hill in such a way that he cut Hasdubrals men from gaining an escape to Gades. Seeing Scipio setup camp, the Carthaginian and Numidian cavalry led by Masinissa and Mago decided to do a surprise attack on him however an unexpected charge by the Roman horses in the flanks was able to beat back the attack.

For the next three days the Carthaginian and Roman army would meet in the exact location but never engage in full-blown battle. The meeting would likely involve sporadic skirmishers between cavalry and light troops. Neither one would attempt to provoke a conflict or attempt to surprise the enemy. Scipio set his army up in the classical Roman formation with the legions in the center, Spanish and allied infantry in the right and left supported by cavalry in the flanks. Very soon, the two armies got the idea that this would be the formation for the battle and this allowed Scipio to put his plan into works

The Battle


The last few days allowed for Scipio to study the enemy army and prepare for his actual attack. By the third day Scipio had had enough of the skirmishing and decided on a strategy to surprise his enemy. He ordered his men to wake up early and to properly feed themselves. Before dawn Scipio ordered his light troops and cavalry to attack the enemy camp. Rushed out and harassed by the velites, The Carthaginians formed the battle line in the original formation when they realized Scipio had altered his. Instead of the heavy infantry in middle, Scipio had placed them in the flanks with the cavalry and had put his Spanish troops in the middle.
The legions, which were placed in the flanks, were in the usual triple axes formation. Scipio had them turn to the right while the left wing turned to the left, Goldworthy states that:

Quote:
"A narrow-fronted column will always move faster then a line, for it faces fewer obstacles and there is less need for its officer's to halt and reform the ranks at regular intervals"



They then began marching toward the enemy moving faster then the Spanish auxiliary in the center. As they approached the enemy they wheeled at 90 degrees and reforming the triple axes facing the enemy flanks. This brilliant maneuver was able to completely outflank the enemy and cavalry. As this happened they began to engage the flanks. With the slower Spanish infantry moving in the center, the powerful Libyan mercenaries were not able to come to the aid of their comrades for fear of retaliation from the weaker Spanish troops. The heavy infantry then proceeded to attack the elephants causing them to panic and rush to the middle where they crushed many of the Libyan troops.

Completely outflanked and surrounded, the Carthaginians were facing a fate similar to the Roman one at Cannae. The sudden surge of the Roman army broke through the Carthaginian lines and caused them to flee. They were rallied on a nearby hill but without any aid they faced certain doom. Just as luck would have it aid did come, in the form of nature. A large storm began and Scipio decided not to continue the battle. The Romans retired and the Carthaginians were able to safely return to camp. The damage however, had been done.

Aftermath


Sources do not give any number on casualties. However one must assume that they must have been rather high. Much like Hannibal, Scipio was able to dictate how and when the battle would be fought. The legion maneuvering gives little doubt as to how high their skill and discipline was. This type of maneuver would be impossible under the army of the earlier battles. The skill and discipline of the legionaries under Scipio would be the highest the pre-Marius legions would see. Something that would be lost following the years of the Second Punic War.

By the morning Hasdubral found his Spanish troops deserting him. Seeing no hope in Spain, He ordered a full retreat. The difficulty of a retreat from a nearby enemy especially one as elated as the Romans after their recent victory meant that many of the soldiers were cut down. Masinissa and Hasdubral were able to reach a coast in time and get to Africa while Mago made it to Gades. Many of the Punic troops were abandoned and dissolved throughout Spain. A plan to betray Gades to Rome gave further proof to the dying Carthaginian hold in Spain. More and more tribes pledged their allegiance to Rome. Some that declared their freedom were attacked. In one occasion an entire village committed suicide rather then fall to the hand of another oppressor. In the light of all this success in Spain, one event would occur that would put Romes weak hold on Spain at risk and brought about a short mutiny.

Scipio fell ill, and soon rumors of his death spread like wildfire which caused a mutiny in his army due to the long years service some of the legions had done and lack of pay or loot. Another insurrection occured among some Spanish tribes headed by Indibilis. As soon as Scipio recovered, he quelled the mutiny by using the large loot gained from the Spanish conquest. He then proceeded to attack Indibilis and handed him a defeat which stopped the Spanish tribes rebellion for the time being. Scipio then proceeded to capture Gades. This completed Roman conquest in Spain. However it would not be until Augustus reign that all of Spain would become completely pacified and annexed. Fierce fighting occurred there for time to time which handed Rome some heavy casualties.

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  Quote baracuda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jun-2005 at 07:13
"Iskender ALBO " - Funny numbers you have there, and the history's funny also... and no Murad wasnt terrified he continued on attacking and only in 1478 did he suceed..
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  Quote vulkan02 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jun-2005 at 10:51

45,000 ottoman soldiers was actually on the low side... when Murad came to Albania (i think he did twice) his army was well above 100000 .  Murad never suceeded conquering Albania he died in 1451  ... Mehmet did.

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