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The Bogomils

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TheodoreFelix View Drop Down
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  Quote TheodoreFelix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The Bogomils
    Posted: 07-Aug-2005 at 15:12
Scanderbeg
By Henry Hodgkinson
Notes, page 230
Chapter 12
Number 4, The Bogomils


Bogomil ('Beloved of God') is supposed to have been a 10th century Bulgarian priest who founded a puritan sect teaching that the material world was evil, and that virtue thus consisted in practicing a rigid ascenticism. As a herasy it incurred the hostility of Roman and Orthodox Churches, and it was equally suspect to the secular authorities of its contempt for wordly power. In a society where civil and religious authority were borh consipuously oppressive, such a movement was popular. It spread throughout Southeast Europe and came to threaten the established order. So it was generally persecuted, and those who remained faithful to it took refuge in the less accessible mountain districts such as Bosnia(under the name of Patarenes) and southern Frace(The Albingensians). Where it could be exterpated, ir was; and among the instruments used were new medicant orders of the Roman Church - the Franciscans and Dominicans - who could not be accused of wordliness. Being disinterested they proved the ideal instrument of persuasion, especially when the threat of persecution and massacre followed in the shape of secular armies.

The significance of Bogomilism in Bosnian history is however hardly religious at all, but almost wholly political. Hungary, who covered the country from the north, was Roman Catholic; Serbia, who threatened from the east, was Orthodox, and each of them denied the existance of Bosnia as a separate national unit. But the Bosnians had early of independant statehood; under her first ruler the Ban Kulin - a bon Roi Rene of the Balkans - joined the Patarenes. He was forced to recant in 1203 under papal and Hungarian pressure; but the pattern for the future had been established. After a series of Crusades against them by Hungarian armies and proletising Dominica priests, Patarenism became the national religion; and when both Roman and Orthodox states before the Turks, it was a comparatively simple matter for the Patarenes to become converted to Islam, especially as they then became more favored subjects of the Ottomans than the Christain neighbors who had so long despised and persecuted them.


I just had enough time in my hands to copy down this section from the book. Looks like some interesting stuff. Anyway since Im on vacation now it will be a while before I can follow up on this..
For those who did not know about it, enjoy...
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  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Aug-2005 at 18:13
They are my favourite heretics as well!

Virtually the only material archaeological evidence of Bogomilism are the "stecci", decorated gravestones that can be found all over Bosnia.



A most comprehensive and readable account of medieval Dualist heresies in Europe is: "The Hidden Tradition in Europe" London 1994, by the Bulgarian author Yuri Stoyanov.

Edited by Komnenos
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  Quote ill_teknique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Aug-2005 at 00:07
Yeah the patarentes or Krstjani were the Independent Bosnian Church that existed untill its members converted to Islam after the Ottoman conquest, the bogomils were also a big draw and popular in Bosnia.  The Bosnian rulers from Ban Kulin on officially did not support the church meaning that they acknowledged its existence and probably followed it but had to be political in keeping alliances so they claimed alliegnece to the Latin church.  Furthermore, a intersting fact is that the appointed Bishop of Bosnia usually never steped foot into Bosnia he was usually centering his Bishoprical residence in Croatian towns which was part of the Hungarian Kingdom.  Especially in the 1300s.  Bogomils also believed in the Divinity of Jesus which was another reason why Islamic beliefs would be attractive to them. Iks whats the book about is it only on Bogomils or ?
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  Quote Red_Lord Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Aug-2005 at 19:30
The bogomils may be seen in other light as a react agains bizantian doctrine to asimilate slavs on the balkans.They want to take all under control of Constantinopole's Church
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  Quote the Bulgarian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Aug-2005 at 03:43

Originally posted by Red_Lord

The bogomils may be seen in other light as a react agains bizantian doctrine to asimilate slavs on the balkans...

I don't think so. Bogomilism originated in Bulgaria, where Byzantine Emperial interests had no influence. It originated as an act of rebellion of Bulgarian peasentry against the feodals. Indeed, it was influenced heavily by a Byzantine heressy - pavlikenism, but theologicaly, not politialy. Neither pavlikenism, nor bogomilism have any political goals.

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  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Aug-2005 at 12:47
Originally posted by the Bulgarian

I don't think so. Bogomilism originated in Bulgaria, where Byzantine Emperial interests had no influence. It originated as an act of rebellion of Bulgarian peasentry against the feodals. Indeed, it was influenced heavily by a Byzantine heressy - pavlikenism, but theologicaly, not politialy. Neither pavlikenism, nor bogomilism have any political goals.



It's bit more complicated than that. Bogomilism was but one incarnation of the dualist heresy that had spread westwards from Persia after the third century AD.
Originating from Manichaeism, a religious movement named after its founder Mani, who had combined aspects of Zoroastrianism, Christianity and other religions into one belief, it had moved westwards and heavily influenced Christian communities in Armenia and Syria. The Euchites and especially the Paulicians in Armenia
had a large following and the Paulicians established a independent rule in Armenia in the 8th and 9th century.
In 757 the Byzantine Emperor Constantine V resettled a large number of Paulicians into Thrace, where they became the Pavlikeni and influenced the indigenous Bulgarian population and consolidated existing dualist heretic sects. Bogomilism came out of an amalgamation of various dualist beliefs as a new heresy in the 10th century and spread into the Balkans, where it found a stronghold in Bosnia. Bogomil missionaries fianlly made their way into Central Europe where they founded various other dualist sects, in Italy, Germany and especially in the South of France, where the Dualists became known as the Cathars.
Dualist heresies were theologically in their nature indeed, but their refusal to acknowledge any Catholic or Orthodox eclesiastic authority made them also politically dangerous.

Edited by Komnenos
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  Quote the Bulgarian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Aug-2005 at 14:54

You realy must have a PhD on history, Komnenos. No use hiding it, my friend!

Anyway, Bogomilism was excepted in such great numbers by the overtaxed peasantry, because of its preachings not to pay your taxes. This is the most simplistic explanation possible. I didn't know that much about its roots, but I still think that if not its creation, then its mass spread can be seen as an act of rebellion.

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Aug-2005 at 17:20

I would like to add a few things on this particular topic; The Bogomils originated in Bulgaria; they were the continuation of the Gnostic Paulician sect, but nevertheless they comprise a new sect that happens to follow in the footsteps of the older, Armenia Paulician sect, once they reached France the term Bogomils became replaced with the term Cathars, hence the origination of this French Gnostic sect; however, as these changes were occurring there are records from Western sources that call the Bogomils; Bulgari, hence they used Bogomil as a synonym for Bulgar(ian).
An interesting fact is that when the Bogomils vacated Bulgaria, they took with them large quantities of books, addressing different holly issues. One of these Bulgarian books was eventually used within France; French knights swore allegiance to the French throne upon this particular book that came from Bulgaria. Now, I dont know about a particular stronghold in Bosnia; however, I know that they spent a significant duration of time in Croatia, which is the supposed reason as to why scholars believe the ending part of the Bulgarian, later French, holly book was actually written with the Glagolithic script, rather than the Bulgarian Cyrillic.

The reasons for the origination of the Bogomils and their choice to peruse a Gnostic faith which was persecuted (the Paulicians), continuously, was the fact the Bulgarian population was all of a sudden converted to Christianity by Tsar Boris I; which, was not an event enjoyed by the masses who preferred to remain with their old Bulgarian religious customs. To sum up, their origination was due to an opposition of the regular people against political attempts to diminish Bulgarian heritage and customs; eventually, Christianity was enforced upon the Bulgarian population through the wishes of the Bulgarian Tsar.

PS: An electronic copy of the holly book I mentioned earlier was recently given to Bulgaria by the French.



Edited by Ognian Tvirem
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  Quote Nagyfejedelem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Aug-2005 at 14:40
It's interesting. I don't know about Bogomils religion.
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  Quote Nagyfejedelem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Aug-2005 at 14:43
And I knew Cathars had an other religion.
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  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Aug-2005 at 17:39
Originally posted by Nagyfejedelem

It's interesting. I don't know about Bogomils religion.


You should, Bosnia was at various times ruled by Hungarian kings, who as good Catholics and urged on by the Pope undertook Crusades in Bosnia to stamp out the Bogomil heretics, like under King Andreas in 1235. I'm not sure if the Bogomils spread out into Hungary, but due to the proximity of the two countries it's more than likely.

Anyway, here is a map depicting the spread of dualist heresies into Europe:

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  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31-Aug-2005 at 17:53
Originally posted by Ognian Tvirem

An interesting fact is that when the Bogomils vacated Bulgaria, they took with them large quantities of books, addressing different holly issues. One of these Bulgarian books was eventually used within France; French knights swore allegiance to the French throne upon this particular book that came from Bulgaria.



Apparently there have been small and hidden dualist sects in Bulgaria until the 17th century, in Bosnia probably even later than that.
And this book, you're taliking of, is that the notorious "Liber secretum" ?
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  Quote ill_teknique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Sep-2005 at 00:09
Originally posted by Komnenos

Originally posted by Nagyfejedelem

It's interesting. I don't know about Bogomils religion.


You should, Bosnia was at various times ruled by Hungarian kings, who as good Catholics and urged on by the Pope undertook Crusades in Bosnia to stamp out the Bogomil heretics, like under King Andreas in 1235. I'm not sure if the Bogomils spread out into Hungary, but due to the proximity of the two countries it's more than likely.

Anyway, here is a map depicting the spread of dualist heresies into Europe:



it was independent by 1200
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  Quote Nagyfejedelem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Sep-2005 at 17:31

Komnenos:

Thank you. It's a good map.

So, Bosnia sometimes was a part of Hungary, and I knew about Hungarian Crusads against Bogomils but I really didn't know too much about them. Their connection with Manichaeism is quite interesting. Religion of Bogomils maybe wasn't very popular in Hungary but I know about that Hungarian 'half-pagans' were massacred under Andreas II. I don't know it means the ancient Hungarian 'paganism' or did they have any connection with Bogomils.

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  Quote pavlikean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Dec-2005 at 08:29
ok. My ancestors are pavlikeans (paulicians) and I want to read more about this group (I think "sect" is not the right word!). If somebody can tell me or send me good sourse of reading, please contact me: grig_cat@yahoo.com
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  Quote Mila Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Dec-2005 at 20:16
Portions of Bosnia and Herzegovina were of course a part of Hungary. Tuzla, for example, was originally called Solu. It's first record is from 950-something AD as a Hungarian town.

It's the same for Slavonija and Vojvodina.
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  Quote Nagyfejedelem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Dec-2005 at 11:02

Originally posted by Mila

Portions of Bosnia and Herzegovina were of course a part of Hungary. Tuzla, for example, was originally called Solu. It's first record is from 950-something AD as a Hungarian town.

It's the same for Slavonija and Vojvodina.

As I know the name of this town was S. It was the centre of the Banat of S and Tuzla is a Turkish translation of the name of this town. And Hungarian-speaking territories truly were in the Nortern part of BiH which disappeared during the 16. century or earlier such as the most of the Hungarians from the Southern Voivodina and Slavonia.

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  Quote Socrates Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Dec-2005 at 08:09
One serbian historian connects the Bogomils views with some ancient texts like Vedas-he proposes they were trying to preserve some ancient belives...However,it appears that all Slavs found it hard to replace their ancient religions with christianity(being the most conservative of all IE'S)-significant no.of those old rituals was simply 'incorporated' into Christianity...
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  Quote Mila Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Dec-2005 at 09:45
Originally posted by Nagyfejedelem

Originally posted by Mila

Portions of Bosnia and Herzegovina were of course a part of Hungary. Tuzla, for example, was originally called Solu. It's first record is from 950-something AD as a Hungarian town.

It's the same for Slavonija and Vojvodina.

As I know the name of this town was S. It was the centre of the Banat of S and Tuzla is a Turkish translation of the name of this town. And Hungarian-speaking territories truly were in the Nortern part of BiH which disappeared during the 16. century or earlier such as the most of the Hungarians from the Southern Voivodina and Slavonia.



You're probably right, Nag. Just because we call it Solu doesn't mean it was. Even today you can find New Jork, Burlin, etc. It could have been So in Hungarian.

The town crest says "Soli". (Far left):


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  Quote Nagyfejedelem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Dec-2005 at 17:20

Mila:

The word 's' meant 'salt' in Hungarian. In Turkish 'tuz' also meant salt. So easily could happen that Tuzla is the Turkish translation of the name of the city. It's only my theory, but perhaps true.Wink

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