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Topic ClosedChina is Multiracial and Chinggis is a Chinese Hero, Period!

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Pretorian
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: China is Multiracial and Chinggis is a Chinese Hero, Period!
    Posted: 05-Sep-2004 at 00:16
I want to address this to my Khalkha friends from Outer Mongolia.
1. China is a multiethnic country like the USA
2. My wife is a Kharachin Mongol, she is a citizen of the PRC
3. There are 3.7million mongols living in Inner Mongolia vs. 2.5million in Outer Mongolia.
4. The Chahar are the closest Kin to Genghis, and they speak the correct mongolian dialect and write the correct script.
5. The Chahar live in southwestern Inner Mongolia in the Ordos Region.
There are only two groups of people that forged the true unity of the chinese nation with it's capitol in Beijing today, they are the Mongols and Manchus.
Therefore, China has all the right to declare Genghis,
his entire lineage as chinese heroes , same goes for
Nurhaci and his Manchu lineage.

By the way, the last two great Khans of the mongol nation
were Chahars not Khalkhas.
It was the Khalkhas who , by virtue of their weakness
and fear of the Oirads, who invited the Manchu army into Mongolia to save them from the wrath of Galdan, the Oirad Khan.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Sep-2004 at 11:55

I disagree (btw, welcome to AE).

The Mongols didn't turn into the Yuan Dynasty in China before Chinggis Kha'an's grandson Khubilai's time, so Chinggis Kha'an wasn't a Zhongguoren. Besides, he didn't have anything cultural, religious or political things to do with China, he was non-Chinese all throughout his life.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Sep-2004 at 14:06
Originally posted by ihsan

I disagree (btw, welcome to AE).

The Mongols didn't turn into the Yuan Dynasty in China before Chinggis Kha'an's grandson Khubilai's time, so Chinggis Kha'an wasn't a Zhongguoren. Besides, he didn't have anything cultural, religious or political things to do with China, he was non-Chinese all throughout his life.

But Chinggis Kha'an's sons and grandsons did

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Sep-2004 at 14:10
WHy cant he be a Chinese hero?  Sure it may be a little bizarre and kind of like Armenians making Talat thir hero but he if you want...
"the people are nothing but a great beast...
I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value."
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Sep-2004 at 15:01
I'm with ihsan on this one; why make someone who wasn't Chinese, who conquered the Chinese, a hero?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Sep-2004 at 15:08
well many individuals view foreigers as heroes, so why cant a nation?  Misguided or no it hapens and Im sure everyone here has at least 1 person from a foreign country they idolize.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Sep-2004 at 16:39

LoL, this is just another episode of Alexander of Makedon vs Alexander of Greece...

 

besides, Ihsan is right, it was Qubilai who's the first Mongol Emperor of China, not Chinggis, there's no question about that....

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Sep-2004 at 16:52

Originally posted by Tobodai

WHy cant he be a Chinese hero?  Sure it may be a little bizarre and kind of like Armenians making Talat thir hero but he if you want...

Armenians have never glorified any Pasha as their hero. Especially not someone as repulsive and oppresive as Talat, he carried out the ethnic cleansing of Armenians...if anything, he is an enemy.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Sep-2004 at 17:00
Chinggis Kha'an didn't even conquer China. He only defeated (though not subjugated) the Jin and just before his death, he ordered the destruction of Xixia. The conquest of China was completed during the time of Khubilai, so the "Chinese Mongol" line starts with him.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Sep-2004 at 17:29
This is Ridiculous....Pretty soon they'll be making Admiral Yi SUnshin the national Hero of China, b/c there are a few Koreans living in Manchuria.  While we're on it the we should make Emperor Hirohito the national hero of Korea and every year on his birthday we can worship him....
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Sep-2004 at 20:19

Originally posted by cliveersknell

I want to address this to my Khalkha friends from Outer Mongolia.
1. China is a multiethnic country like the USA
2. My wife is a Kharachin Mongol, she is a citizen of the PRC
3. There are 3.7million mongols living in Inner Mongolia vs. 2.5million in Outer Mongolia.
4. The Chahar are the closest Kin to Genghis, and they speak the correct mongolian dialect and write the correct script.
5. The Chahar live in southwestern Inner Mongolia in the Ordos Region.
There are only two groups of people that forged the true unity of the chinese nation with it's capitol in Beijing today, they are the Mongols and Manchus.
Therefore, China has all the right to declare Genghis,
his entire lineage as chinese heroes , same goes for
Nurhaci and his Manchu lineage.

By the way, the last two great Khans of the mongol nation
were Chahars not Khalkhas.
It was the Khalkhas who , by virtue of their weakness
and fear of the Oirads, who invited the Manchu army into Mongolia to save them from the wrath of Galdan, the Oirad Khan.

Clive

I guess as a "khalkha friend" I'll have to respond... You're wife's not mongol. Period. 



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Sep-2004 at 12:53
look, there's a difference between one chinese considering Genghis Khan as a hero, which is understandable because he was a great warrior, and the country of china claiming genghis khan as a national hero. altho people of lotsa ethnicities do live in china, china is not a country with the mongol heritage that mongolia is. mongolians in inner mongolia might have mongol heritage, but u cant go claiming koreans, manchus, tibetans, vietnamese, hmongs, kazakhs, turks as chinese national heroes because people from those ethnicities live in china. somebody's only ur national hero if your the country with his/her heritage and if he benefited ur country.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Sep-2004 at 16:48
Originally posted by ArmenianSurvival

Originally posted by Tobodai

WHy cant he be a Chinese hero?  Sure it may be a little bizarre and kind of like Armenians making Talat thir hero but he if you want...

Armenians have never glorified any Pasha as their hero. Especially not someone as repulsive and oppresive as Talat, he carried out the ethnic cleansing of Armenians...if anything, he is an enemy.

 

yes genious, that was my point.

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I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value."
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Sep-2004 at 18:03
How about we move the thread in a somewhat different direction, and let's say, try to define what a hero is or should be first...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Sep-2004 at 18:37
Chinggis can be a hero to many Chinese, but he by no stretch is a Chinese hero and never will.  It will be hard for me to be persuaded on this one.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Sep-2004 at 19:37

Tobodai, my apologies, i misunderstood your post.

And its GENIUS, not GENIOUS, you genius .

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Sep-2004 at 23:34
Hi Folks
Thanks for responding to my earlier post. I have a few questions for thought:
1. In the 13th century what is considered chinese?
2. Does China exist in the 13th century?
3. Are the chinese people strictly confined to Hans?
4. What is the geopolitical map of "China" during the 13th century?
5. Are the Jurchens, Xixia, Qidans , Dalinese, Tibetans Chinese?

r's
Clive
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Sep-2004 at 08:07

1. Dynasties Jin and Sung

2. Yes

3. No, many jurchens and kitans served Jin.

4. That of Jin and Sung.

5. No, none of them are chinese, except "dalinese". What's dalinese?



Edited by Chono
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Sep-2004 at 13:07
I think he means the people of the kingdom Nan Zhao
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Sep-2004 at 20:33

Originally posted by Gubukjanggoon

This is Ridiculous....Pretty soon they'll be making Admiral Yi SUnshin the national Hero of China, b/c there are a few Koreans living in Manchuria.  While we're on it the we should make Emperor Hirohito the national hero of Korea and every year on his birthday we can worship him....

 

Alexander the Great is a hero of the western world. The Western world loves the Roman Empire, the same empire that pretty much brought upon the cultural genocide of all native European beliefs. And right now, the descendants of those Druids and shamans and barbarians and berserkers learn in their textbooks how awesome the Romans were in conquoring their people. If they can do that, then Ghengis Khan can be a hero to modern China.

Now, Ghengis Khan, he took after Chinese culture. His descendants conquored the known world, and of all those cultures, they took after China. They respected the greatness of China and so themselves became ingrained into the culture of China.



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