The Battle of Gallipoli

Don't read too much into that "Clash of Civilizations" stuff.  My feeling is that there has not been anything like that since the seventeenth century, at least in Europe.

Gallipoli showed that strategic thinking....the opening of a southern flank against the Central Powers...needed more than looking at a map.  The equipment and experience did not yet exist to bring off a successful large scale amphibious operation, and logistical planning was lacking also.  The lessons were learned and put to use in World War II.

And we must give credit to the Turkish army for a skillful and vigorous defense.  That was impressive. 

what would be happen if turks lose this battle..? u can be sure that england would be only force of world now(not germans bcs they had  nothing to lose as a result of nationalism)..britain lost many regions bcs of leaders which saw Ataturk as a legend after that war..anzacs are in this group too 

 

Yes ANZACS (it's an abbreviated term requiring capitals, I'm not yelling) are in this group, cheers turkos .

I do not see this as a clash of cultures, the Turks were adopting Western ways and the Turkish forces at Gallipoli were largely directed by German military officers. German involvement in Turkish affairs had been going on for years. Also I doubt that had Gallipoli been won by the Alllies that Anatolia would have been divided up and parceled off, we see that after the end of WWI they made some attempt at that. The reason it failed was simply that Anatolia was heavily Turkified after over half a millennium of Turkish rule, such a large area of territory with a sometimes militant populace and a fairly advanced level of technology simply wouldn't stand for it.

Had Gallipoli been won in 1915 the effects for world history would have been dramatic. With Turkey knocked out of the war the Straits are opened and supplies come streaming in to the Russians. Bulgaria quickly collapses without Turkey, and the Allies easily push into the Balkans to liberate Serbia from enemy occupation. With the vast south of the Austro-Hungarian flank open to attack, the newly equppied Russians now once again able to advance from the East, Austria falls easily. The eastern front, too vast to be bogged down in trench warfare, is broken open. Germany is now utterly surrounded and lacks the ability to defend so against so many enemies on so many fronts. Surrender is obtained at some point in 1916.

Britain and France are tired but not exhausted. Russia retains its monarchy and continues its industrial revolution, having weathered the most serious storm which could threaten its social structure. Perhaps this large nation will make incremental moves towards allowing their duma (parliament) more power as the nation's wealth increases. Russia is also given Constantinople, which it was promised by the Allies. Net result is an extremely powerful Russia with Britain and France also scratched but not down and out. Perhaps the three would form a kind of triumvirate over world affairs, creating a balance of power where they manipulate international relations for their own benefit.


Edited by Constantine XI

Well the Germans played a leading role in directions and were deeply involved in the planning and strategising of the battle. When you have an elite corps of German officers training, equipping, drilling, positioning and strategising for the Turks it is fair to say they played a critical role in directing the Turkish forces.

yes, It always comes me weird too. They lost people without reason, and They are building their nation over this nonsense.

Constantine XI

Yes, they effected somehow, but it is not always good always. Liman decisions are not always right,(well mostly wrong) This is why Ataturk one time take decision by himself.

In fact this war cost us all educated people of Turkey. A lot people from Istanbul went this war and lost their life, high school of galata lost all of its Turkish student at this war.

 

Ataturk is the one figure I see playing a really decisive role as a Turk, but leaders on both sides made decisions of mind boggling stupidity. And yes it did cost the Turks heavily, I remember reading they suffered a staggering 30,000 killed in action during one single day of the general offensive against the Allies.

The Dominions typically accounted for themselves well. Coming more from rural areas than the British, these soldiers possessed all the bellicose features of a youthful nation. Eager to prove themselves, the keen young men were hurled tragically against impossible positions. Such commanders as Haig interpreted their intrepid spirit as indiscipline, being more concerned with reducing these men to dull servitude than utilizing their martial qualities.

"Constantine XI" there is an offsprey book around on Galipoly..

I usualy download books first, if I like it then I buy them.. so if you can download it would be easy to find over p2p

I think he meant "Osprey". They are good books, not very broad but detailed.

 

Come on - OF course the Anatolia would have been DIVIDED! ANY GIVEN DAY ANATOLIA WOULD BE DIVIDED! And those of you I see here saying things like "Anatolia was too turkified" that is just bogus from Westerners who have NO idea what they are talking about... All you learn in the west is how many Turks you killed and how many allied they killed... That's all...

Truth is after WW1 the Ottoman Empire was being divided into bits and pieces - among other states a Kurdistan was planned - and with the Mosul Vilayet to be given permission to "join" it two years later... And then the DAMN "Young Turks" party surfaced and brought with them their NAZI-like ideology that denied all other nations of the Near East any credit - Damn Atat�rk was first supported by the Kurds because he was talking about a Turkish-Kurdish state and then changed his freaky mind and banned everything "Kurd" and "Kurdistan"... 

But HEY - NO hard feelings damn Europeans... (In fact it is quite amazing that Kurds don't HATE the west - but instead see it as a role model) After all the sh*t Kurds have been through because of imperialist and colonialist aspirations...

We will free our Kurdistan by our selves thank you very much - and we don't need a ROTTEN pound from Englishmen...

Today Southern Kurdistan - Tomorrow Eastern and Western Kurdistan and in two weeks we will TAKE BACK our lands in Northern Kurdistan and kick Turkeys ass...