The Greatest Islamic Empire

Originally posted by THE TURK Cok Gec, I recommend this book to you. It has very interesting information about ethnical identity of The Ottomans. http://www.ideefixe.com/kitap/tanim.asp?sid=IJO5ZZ5OO66I6LOU M000

Does it come in English? My Turkish is so terrible that I will need one day to finish one page

Yup. Actually a lot of scholars have debated that there is a race called a pure Arab race in all Arab countries. Original Arabs can stay unmixed like in some parts of the Arabian Penynsila, or mixed as in Iraq and Palestine, or arabataized (became Arabs by speaking the language) like many of Algerian berbrs...etc

So, Arabic is not a race, but a language bound. Suprisingly, the prediction of that transfer from an ethnic race of Arab to Arab common by language was predicted by the Prophet (SWT) when he said in the meaning "An Arab is he who spoke Arabic". Sahih Bukhari Hadith.

Now, Im suprised you still push for the idea that Turkic is a race bound. I belive it depends. Can be a race, like between various Turkic tribes, can be a language bound, like in Turkey itself. Are Azeris Turkic people? I don't know. If they speak Turkic language why not consider them Turks? Because they are ethnically not Turk but Persian? Well, half of west of Turkey are greek by race but Turkish by culture and religion.

Again, that idea is not mine. It is a product of various resources including Turkish governmental resources. In fact, you saying that Turkic bound is "Common history, langauge and culture. I never think that their face was link" you didn't mention race? which is the physical appearance. So you support too that Turkic bound is sharing common history, language, and culure. Maybe I said language bound, but I meant all what comes with the language including the culture, and obviously as you mentioned history.

Edited by �ok ge�

I have read another of your "proud" comment on "HOW the Arabs beat the Turks "and how it was an independent fight" ...

By losing their pride, honor and their "independence",dividing and  selling their country, their people and their natural resources, hiding behind the british, and shooting the Turks behind...
Coincidences:
Killing of millions in Iran irak war which iraq hidden behind the US guns
Killing of thousands in Afghanistan

nowadays, killing of Iraqi's by some "proud" minority shiates, Kurds and Arabs hiding behind the US guns ....Always hiding behind a zionist/mason/and or Christian guns, killing their own people at worst, killing people in similiar  faith at best....Still how could one find any PRIDE in killing their own, or any innocent for that matter...  with your logic, Iraqis on the side of invaders, fighting for their independence....what an independence that Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, Kuwait, UAE has....

At a time when all the previous meaning of concepts have been changed by Monopolized (by you know whom) media, we have to stick on the previous, real  meanings of concepts at least on most cases;
*like  "freedom fighters", who fights for their country against invasion, nowadays the ones who side with the invaders are called as such
*like "terrorist" who kills innocent people, either with a bomb in a public train, or by dropping bomb on people..It is not the means that determines the action but the end result of it..Any act resulting in killing innocent people is a terrorist act. The means one uses could be a simple bomb, or a multi million dollar plane..if the end result is killing the innocent people that is called terrorism.
* democracy...any country even kingdom, as long as they are on the side of you know whom is called democracy..or any exported or/and supported Puppet goverments .
*Death Squads; who kills their own people , now a days they are called "commandos of democratic government" 

without getting off the main subject, Mr General, The concept of Turk, Turkish and Turkic have been very important for the neo-crusaders since the beginning of the first World war...They made sure that no Turk_ic origin Europeans should be called Turkish, but  "muslim minorities", they have rewritten the history with a similiar explanation that you are using..Somehow, that did not change the minds of serbs,,when they were killing the bosnians, they were saying they were killing the Turks...It was written even on Times (somehow) you must have missed it.

Similiarly, one of the civilized empires of the past (somehow only the Christian empires are presented to be)  The Khazar empire has been kept secret for years...You probably know that..It was the nightmare of Zionists when a Jewish Writer disclosed this secret..with the documents, letters and archeological artifacts.. It is still have being suppressed and being defied despite the facts ...why..because "anti-semitism" always being an important weapon.. If you say anything about Islam, it cant be taken as racist, I wouldn't call it anti-turkish, or anti-arab, But if you say anything about Judaism, jewish, it was called Anti_semitism..meaning anti-semite  a racist approach, because it has been claimed that it is a "race" base religion..when the Khazar empire question came out to open, which they were all Turk_ic (in reality one of the ten ancient Turkish tribes ruled by Ashina tribe like most others) who converted judaism, and who makes up of , if not all most of Russian, Bulgarian, Ukranian Jews, some of Ashkenazi European jews...millions...

History is written and rewritten, meaning of concepts have been reconfigured for one fundamental reason...division & manipulation...
Divide and Conquer..
It is not racism to find out who you are, contrary it brings sympath and unity, it is racism to claim your race is superior to others..like calling oneself "choosen ones""
That's why you see the biggest racism in countries who claim to be anti_racist , while they preach non-nationalism for others, they preach nationalism for themselves...because they know that unity, power, respect, love and care starts from the core of family,,,and spreads to extended family...if you destroy the family, (while they strengthening theirs) you cant be united and always kill each other

respectfully

Can be a race, like between various Turkic tribes, can be a language bound, like in Turkey itself. Are Azeris Turkic people? I don't know. If they speak Turkic language why not consider them Turks? Because they are ethnically not Turk but Persian?

who said we dont? dont you know their pm said, we are two country, one nation? Yes It have some politics inside of it. But dont you think, It have some minor element too? Dont you know, Turkey follow azeris wish for armenian problem, and azeris help TRNC? And that ethnical thing is another debate, mixing does not mean, they are persians.

 

Well, half of west of Turkey are greek by race but Turkish by culture and religion.

Well I dont know, what do you mean with this but,no. You are wrong, half of west settled by anatolians after   1940-1950

Now Istanbul have more people from anatolia than Istanbul itself, Infact Locals of istanbul is maybe 2-6%. people who came coast of blacksea, middle anatolia and easter anatolia was fulled city.

Again, that idea is not mine. It is a product of various resources including Turkish governmental resources. In fact, you saying that Turkic bound is "Common history, langauge and culture. I never think that their face was link" you didn't mention race? which is the physical appearance. So you support too that Turkic bound is sharing common history, language, and culure. Maybe I said language bound, but I meant all what comes with the language including the culture, and obviously as you mentioned history.

Infact It is a race, what you call a race? With your mentality there were not any race in world. Ethnics built races, when someone say I am arab or turk, you dont look for his dna. A lot of mixing happened, but still majority call himself as Turk. This has no relation with dna. We all come from same root, so when people become a new race? how you call them as a new race?

 

 

 

 

 

guys please stick to the topic which is about the "greatest islamic empire"

 

 

Originally posted by �ok ge� Now, Im suprised you still push for the idea that Turkic is a race bound. I belive it depends. Can be a race, like between various Turkic tribes, can be a language bound, like in Turkey itself. Are Azeris Turkic people? I don't know. If they speak Turkic language why not consider them Turks? Because they are ethnically not Turk but Persian? Well, half of west of Turkey are greek by race but Turkish by culture and religion.

sorry but I don't see any similarity between Persians and Azeris.neither cultural nor lingual.Azeris being turk has been answered by both Azeris and Turks here.it would be off topic to discuss it here again anyway.

as for half of the Western Turkey is being Greek in race is just absurd.You're playing with big numbers of people here.Most Greeks left Turkey in 1920's by losanne treaty.Those who have stayed were not big in numbers.same goes for Turks in Greece as well.I've never seen a muslim Greek in Turkey!


Edited by erci

It is interesting that people start quoting from "wikipedia"...How much bias it could be? since it is written and posted by ordinary people rather than historians.. we should read the history from people who will have no reason to be bias adn has references to actual scientific data.

I have come accross a site full of "historical" data, and mostly talking about Chinese history.. According to him early  Chienese and Turkish history is inseperable..it may shed some light on some of these discussions..

http://www.uglychinese.org/uygur.htm