Taiwan vote

Indeed. Thus the lack of incentive.

Hey hansioux,

I said there should NEVER be "annexation" (or so-called "merge"), and I did not mention one nation two systems even a bit (I know you guys dislike that term very much).

What makes you think that Beijing is gonna to change Taiwanese political system (your treasured democracy)? For Hong Kong, I think its freedom is not worse (if not better). People in Hong Kong became angry because (1) The HKSAR goverment was incompetent dealing with worsening economics; (2) They were demanding more political rights. But Beijing is afraid to see an anti-Beijing HKSAR government (believe me it could be very disastrous). So this is not the time to give full rights to HK (and they did not have the rights during British rule). After all there are still soils for anti-communist elites after hundreds of years of colonization and "brainwashing" (which is not a communist patent ^_^). People in Hong Kong will gain their full freedom whenever Beijing believes that the local government will not be posing threats to the central government (within a decade or two as I might guess).

Not a good choice I have to admit but there seems to be no other choice. China and Hong Kong are just experimenting a way to get along with. Taiwan is different. You can keep whatever you like (except hostility against China ^_^).

BTW, to me freedom is not doing whatever you like. A strong government just like that of Singapore will suit China better than that of Taiwan. (ATTENTION: my words has no other meaning - maybe Taiwanese system of government suits Taiwan most).

BTW again, I am not defending communism. I dislike it just like most of you guys. But nothing is more important than a stable China which suits the interests of China and Hong Kong, even Taiwan.

So there are mainland appointed officials, big deal, is it wrong to appoint people in your own country? Gee I didn't know that was wrong too. I guess all the countries in the world are messed up according to your logic.

Depends on the people.

In my opinion there should have been a referendum to decide wether HK would want to be a part of UK, ROC or PRC. Or they could choose to form their own nation.

HK's supply all depend on china's, without the mainland, it would not prosper, its reunification is inevitable, had it not been because of Hong Kong's vital link to the mainland, Britain might very well turn back on its treaty(in fact it already has) about the 99 years lease.

Hey warhead,

    Unfortunately you're arguing with the wrong person.  I lived half my life in Hong Kong.  It was really the Mainland people who thought that it was humiliating that Hong Kong was under British rule.  Hong Kong media is as much anti-Britain as it is anti-Mainland.  It's the free speech culture that developed in Hong Kong to criticize just about everything political.

    Fact is that the people of Hong Kong were indifferent to how they politically compare to Britain.  On many levels the people of Hong Kong were much better off.  Its relation to Britain was so vague that there was practically no loyalty or comaraderie to speak of.  A best assessment of how Hong Kongese viewed themselves was practically that of an independent country.  With London and Beijing so far away, the Hong Kong government (my dad was a civil servant himself) mostly consists of Hong Kongese taking care their own business.

    If you think that a government cannot bully its people, then the PRC revolution was pretty pointless in the first place.  The government bullying its people is different from a person bullying himself, so you made a moot analogy there.  You mistakenly assumed that only foreign powers can bully a country.  In fact, much bullying is done by one's own state. 

Peace,

Michael

10-7-2004 

Edited by MengTzu

BTW how Canada sees Quebecois Independence (QI)?

Hey evildoer,

    Idealogues can't make a change without arms.  Quebec, Taiwan, Hong Kong can talk all they want.  Political powers all come down to who has the military.  I think the Hong Kongese have grown used to this reality.  The thing is, politically Hong Kong is a part of China, but the collective consciousness of the people sees themselves independent regardless of politics.

Peace,

Michael

10-8-2004

"Unfortunately you're arguing with the wrong person.  I lived half my life in Hong Kong.  It was really the Mainland people who thought that it was humiliating that Hong Kong was under British rule.  Hong Kong media is as much anti-Britain as it is anti-Mainland.  It's the free speech culture that developed in Hong Kong to criticize just about everything political.

    Fact is that the people of Hong Kong were indifferent to how they politically compare to Britain. "

 

You're not the only one that lived in Hong Kong, my friend, I have cousins that live there too, and its ridiculous to say that all of them actually are indifferent, there are a great number that does feel humiliated, you can ask me for names, but it would be endless. Just look at all the Hong Kong films, which one actually say positive things about British imperialism?

 

 

"On many levels the people of Hong Kong were much better off.  Its relation to Britain was so vague that there was practically no loyalty or comaraderie to speak of.  A best assessment of how Hong Kongese viewed themselves was practically that of an independent country.  With London and Beijing so far away, the Hong Kong government (my dad was a civil servant himself) mostly consists of Hong Kongese taking care their own business."

 

Sorry, but many rich people in Hong Kong love the PRC, when they got out of business, the PRC supported them, and many are part of the party today, so you're generalization is shallow at best in regarding to the whole situation.

   

" If you think that a government cannot bully its people, then the PRC revolution was pretty pointless in the first place.  The government bullying its people is different from a person bullying himself, so you made a moot analogy there.  You mistakenly assumed that only foreign powers can bully a country.  In fact, much bullying is done by one's own state.  "

Do tell me how they are bullied exactly.