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July,25th 1261-Recapture of Constantinopl

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Belisarius View Drop Down
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  Quote Belisarius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: July,25th 1261-Recapture of Constantinopl
    Posted: 26-Jul-2005 at 23:52
I don't know about that... By 1204, the Byzantine navy consisted of 20 rotting galleys. They did not even have a merchant fleet. Perhaps the Byzantines attempted to emulate Roman land-power. However, even then the Romans had a large navy. 
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  Quote Cyprus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jul-2005 at 03:07
As I can remeber we spoke about Trapezun(Trabzon..)and I mentioned taht Trabzon fell into hands of turks exactly 200 years after recapture of Constantinopole - so I found an short history of these empire - here it is.(including list of emperors)


Upon the division of the Roman Empire into two parts, Trabzon went under the domain of Rome with the Eastern Black Sea region. After the second half of the 1st century, Trabzon gained importance and quickly started developing. New commercial opportunities were created in Trabzon when roads connecting Persia to upper Mesopotamia were built during the reign of Emperor Vespasianus. (67-79A.D.) It then became a Roman state when Emperor Arianus started to rule. (98-117A.D.) Emperor Hadrianus helped the city and had a harbor built in his name. A hippodrome, a theater, an inner fortress and aqueducts were built which changed the appearance of the city.
This lasted until 258 A. D. when Goths invaded and looted the city during the time of Emperor Valerianus. (253-260A.D.) Although the city was reconstructed, it never gained its old beauty. It became an important religious center during the expansion of Christianity and as a result, many churches and monasteries were built one after another. The attacks of the Moslem Arab armies against the region from 705 A.D. onwards affected the city to a great extent. As of 1098, the Christian governors of Trabzon tried very hard to protect their independence against Byzantium, but they were not successful. Emperor Justinianus I had new fortresses built in order to defend the city and also had water brought to the city. Stefanos, the Byzantine historian, in his books wrote about the constructional works realized during the period of Justinianus. In the 11th century Trabzon gained even more importance by being a military base. Anatolian Seljuks attacked the city and it was conquered by Sultan Melikshah (1107-1116) but was taken back by Governor Theodoros Gabras. When the Latrines invaded Istanbul Alexius Komnenos, the son of Andronikos Komnenos I fled away and came to Trabzon. Here he declared himself the emperor. Therefore, once again the state of Pontus was established in Trabzon. (1204-1461)
Significant developments were seen while under Komnenos' rule. However he lost a great part of his land when he lost the battle against David Palaiologos, the Emperor of Iznik. Emperor Andronikos I who replaced Komnenos tried hard to regain independence from the Seljuks who were ruling the country. He sent his ships to Sinop for looting purposes and won a sea battle against the Seljuks. In return, Alaaddin Keykubad I surrounded the city from both the land and the sea, but could not conquer it.
Trabzon was a vital harbor on the Erzurum-Tebriz and Black Sea-Persia trading routes in the second half of the 13th century. Mongolians were in power in the beginning, however the Turkomans took power later on.
The first serious Ottoman attempt to conquer Trabzon was during the time of Emperor Kalo Ioannes IV (1447-1458). Sultan Murat II sent his fleet but was not able to seize the city.
Following the conquest of Istanbul, Emperor Kalo Ioannes IV paid taxes to Fatih Sultan Mehmet and in the meantime incited Pope Calixos III and Uzun Hasan against Fatih. He also permitted Byzantine families who ran away from Istanbul to settle in his country. Fatih Sultan Mehmet sent Hizir Bey to Trabzon. Trabzon was faced with the unexpected arrival of the Ottoman navy. The emperor yielded by proposing to pay tax to the amount of 1000 gold pieces per year. He sent his brother, David Komnenos, accompanied by Hizir Bey, to Istanbul to come to an agreement. However, Fatih Sultan Mehmet increased the amount to 3000 gold pieces per year. In the meantime the Emperor did not give up his assaults. While he was paying taxes, he sent messengers to Akkoyunlu Uzun Hasan proposing that he marry his daughter Katerina. He also sought a way to make an agreement with Karamanoglu Ibrahim Bey. After the death of Emperor Kalo Ioannes, his brother David Komnenos was crowned. He sent Katherina to Uzun Hasan. She changed her name to Despina and played an important role in the Akkoyunlu palace. David Komnenos decreased the amount of taxes he was paying and also incited the people living on the lands between Caucasia and Burgond Duchy. The ensuing riots resulted in battles, and Fatih Sultan Mehmet conquered Amasra, Kastamonu and Sinop and reached Trabzon. Although the emperor was prepared to accept all the conditions set forth by the Ottomans, Trabzon was conquered by the Turks on October 26, 1461. Then Trabzon became an important center on the eastern and central Black Sea coastal strip. Yavuz Sultan Selim prior to his becoming the sultan, administered the city as its governor.
________________________________________
DYNASTY LISTING
To the Byzantine Empire 395-1204
COMNENUS
Alexius I 1204-1222
GIDOS
Andronicus I 1222-12325
COMNENUS
John I 1235-1238
Manuel I 1238-1263
Andronicus II 1263-1266
George 1266-1280
John II 1280-1284
Theodora 1284-1287
Alexius II 1287-1330
Andronicus III 1330-1332
Manuel II 1332
Basil 1332-1340
PALEOLOGOS
Irene 1340-1341
ANACHOUTLOU
Anna 1341
COMNENUS
Michael 1341-1342
John III 1342-1349
Alexius III 1349-1390
Manuel III 1390-1417
Alexius IV 1417-1429
John IV 1429-1458
David 1458-1461
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  Quote Jazz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Aug-2005 at 04:30
Originally posted by Komnenos

I though you might want to celebrate with me and every other citizen of the "Cyber Basilea Romaion" this important day in our history, the 25th of July 1261.
......
So, put the champagne on ice, raise your glasses with me tonight and toast to the successful recapture of Constantinople on the 25th of July 1261.



Sorry I missed this party...

I have similar feeling towards Venice like you said in a different thread - I also have a pet-hate for them as well - I not a fan of it's history as well (which I guess you can call "Early-Ransack").

Anyways, I wonder why it took so many years (I mean, 57 years!) for the re-conquest to happen?  After Latin's defeat to the Bulgarians in 1205, the Latin Empire just sort of puttered along....This brings me to another one of my East-Roman what-ifs:  What if 1204 hadn't happened, how would the Emperors at Constantinople dealt with a weakened Bulgarian and Seljuk realms (after the Mongol Invasions)?
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  Quote Heraclius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Aug-2005 at 08:46

 Jazz "What if 1204 hadn't happened, how would the Emperors at Constantinople dealt with a weakened Bulgarian and Seljuk realms (after the Mongol Invasions)?"

 I doubt Byzantium would have survived very long had 1204 not happened, unless of course a good emperor was to emerge with the energy and skill of the Komnemi. The empire was falling to pieces anyway, perhaps if Byzantium had been strong during the Mongol invasions the Mongols would have turned their attention to Byzantium and destroyed it anyway? I think the empire was close to expiring by 1204 unless something drastic happened, the fact it survived until 1453 is remarkable.

 

A tomb now suffices him for whom the world was not enough.
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  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Aug-2005 at 05:39
It took so long to reconquer because the numerous Byzantine splinter states, Balkan states and Turkish encroachments ensured the forces which should have vanquished the Latin Empire early on were fighting eachother. When looking at Byzantium we see they are masters of diplomacy. Prior to 1204 there was a balance of power in the Balkans inspite of huge Byzantine weaknesses, 1204 destroyed that balance of power and the result is a rampage of Ionnitsa of Bulgaria through the Balkans. The Latins never possessed the Byzantine mastery of subtle diplomacy, hence the near immediate collapse of their empire shortly after they stole it.
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  Quote Belisarius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Aug-2005 at 16:25
It is sad that people are naturally stubborn. The two remaining splinter states, Nicaea and Trebizond, needed each other. Nicaea had military strength, but not wealth. Trebizond had wealth, but no military strength. Should they have united, I suspect a much different history between the Byzantines and the Turks.
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  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2005 at 02:20
It would be a nice idea, but sadly once you are Emperor you tend to want to remain so, not least of all to stop from being killed should the next guy in charge suddenly descend into paranoia. I think an alliance between the two would have been much more realistic an idea. When one of the Byzantine states is attacked by the Turks, the other sweeps into Turkish territory from the rear of the attacking Turkish army. Both states were geographically well placed to do that. Ultimately Nicaea should have kept the coastal cities in her European provinces and concentrated on winning back the vital lands in Asia, the fact she failed to do this more than anything else cost her ultimately. I see in the Nicaean state pre-1261 alot of promise and virility, it is so sad it seemed to wither away after. 
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  Quote Byzantine Emperor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2005 at 11:24

Originally posted by Belisarius

It is sad that people are naturally stubborn. The two remaining splinter states, Nicaea and Trebizond, needed each other. Nicaea had military strength, but not wealth. Trebizond had wealth, but no military strength. Should they have united, I suspect a much different history between the Byzantines and the Turks.

We must not forget the Byzantine successor state in Epirus and Thrace.  It was a rather tough principality and took on the the encroaching Bulgars in the north and the rapacious Frankish Crusader barons in the Peloponnesus and the Morea.  If the states of Epirus, Trebizond, and Nica had taken it upon themselves to join forces against all of the foreign enemies in Byzantium, the rebuilding of Constantinople and the Byzantine state would have been a lot easier.  One of the main things the Byzantines lacked upon the accession of Michael VIII was unity, both from a religious and a political standpoint.

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  Quote Belisarius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Aug-2005 at 13:46
Yes, but most of Epirus and all of the other successor state in Thessaloniki eventually fell to Nicaea. The Epirotes united with the Thessalonikans through marriage, I believe. The Epirotes and the Nicaeans were often in conflict, and through these conflicts, the Nicaeans proved to be the stronger. Though the Epirotes were much diminished by the reestablishment of the Byzantine Empire, it might have been nice to add some extra muscle.

A little confusion here... was not the 'Morea' the Frankish term for the Peloponnesus? 

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  Quote Byzantine Emperor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Aug-2005 at 12:41

Originally posted by Belisarius

Yes, but most of Epirus and all of the other successor state in Thessaloniki eventually fell to Nicaea. The Epirotes united with the Thessalonikans through marriage, I believe. The Epirotes and the Nicaeans were often in conflict, and through these conflicts, the Nicaeans proved to be the stronger. Though the Epirotes were much diminished by the reestablishment of the Byzantine Empire, it might have been nice to add some extra muscle.

I know, I was just saying that it was a shame the Byzantine successor states could not put down their differences and join forces against the common enemies -- the Bulgars, Crusader barons, and Seljuk Turks.

Originally posted by belisarius

A little confusion here... was not the 'Morea' the Frankish term for the Peloponnesus? 

Yes, but specifically the southwestern part of the Peloponnesus; have you seen the palace of the Palaeologi on the hill in Mistra?  Well, that area and along the western seaboard.

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