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Great City-State Empires

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Poll Question: What is the greatest city-state in history?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
12 [40.00%]
1 [3.33%]
1 [3.33%]
7 [23.33%]
1 [3.33%]
1 [3.33%]
2 [6.67%]
2 [6.67%]
1 [3.33%]
2 [6.67%]
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Winterhaze13 View Drop Down
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  Quote Winterhaze13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Great City-State Empires
    Posted: 19-Jul-2005 at 12:17
What is the greatest city-state in history?
Indeed, history is nothing more than a tableau of crimes and misfortunes.

-- Voltaire
French author, humanist, rationalist, & satirist (1694 - 1778)
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Winterhaze13 View Drop Down
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  Quote Winterhaze13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2005 at 12:47

Military Skill: Rome, Carthage and Sparta

Cultural Influence: Athens, Venice and Florence

Political Influence: Rome, Athens and Babylon

Economic Influence: Rome, Athens and Florence 

My interests: Troy, Carthage and Florence



Edited by Winterhaze13
Indeed, history is nothing more than a tableau of crimes and misfortunes.

-- Voltaire
French author, humanist, rationalist, & satirist (1694 - 1778)
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  Quote Exarchus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2005 at 12:55
Rome for me
Vae victis!
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  Quote Ahmed The Fighter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2005 at 13:01

Babylon & Persipolis

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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2005 at 13:32
Ahmad, Persepolis wasn't a city state, the Hakhamanesh Empire was not born from Persepolis.
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  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2005 at 13:41
Venice, a great naval powerm a great Pope defier, and th elongest lasting republic in history.
"the people are nothing but a great beast...
I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value."
-Alexander Hamilton
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  Quote Winterhaze13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2005 at 14:15

Originally posted by Tobodai

Venice, a great naval powerm a great Pope defier, and th elongest lasting republic in history.

Who disolved the Venetian Republic and in what year?

Indeed, history is nothing more than a tableau of crimes and misfortunes.

-- Voltaire
French author, humanist, rationalist, & satirist (1694 - 1778)
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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2005 at 14:26
Carthage!

They excelled in all your cathegories: war, economy, cultural influence, political influence. They just were unlucky enough to be defeated and totatlly destroyed by their neighbours, who only excelled in war and politics. They even sailed to the southern hemisphere... tell me of such an exploration by Romans... Rome was so parochial.

The world would have run faster if Hannibal would have won. I can imagine "discovering" America in the 2nd century and maybe no Christianity nor Islam would have ever spread at all. Instead, see what happened with the Romans.

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  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2005 at 14:36
Originally posted by Winterhaze13

Originally posted by Tobodai

Venice, a great naval powerm a great Pope defier, and th elongest lasting republic in history.

Who disolved the Venetian Republic and in what year?

 

I think it was in the 19th century, by creating an Italian Kingdom, about 1860.

Rome and Athens are victorious in your list, but i favour Rome..

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  Quote Winterhaze13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2005 at 15:00
Originally posted by rider

Originally posted by Winterhaze13

Originally posted by Tobodai

Venice, a great naval powerm a great Pope defier, and th elongest lasting republic in history.

Who disolved the Venetian Republic and in what year?

 

I think it was in the 19th century, by creating an Italian Kingdom, about 1860.

Rome and Athens are victorious in your list, but i favour Rome..

No, it was earlier. Venice actually belonged to the Austrian Empire for a short period between the time the republic was disolved and it ceased to be a city-state and when it became a part of the Italian state.

Indeed, history is nothing more than a tableau of crimes and misfortunes.

-- Voltaire
French author, humanist, rationalist, & satirist (1694 - 1778)
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  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2005 at 15:04
then i believe that not before then 1815..
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  Quote Winterhaze13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2005 at 15:11

Originally posted by rider

then i believe that not before then 1815..

It was before 1815. 

Indeed, history is nothing more than a tableau of crimes and misfortunes.

-- Voltaire
French author, humanist, rationalist, & satirist (1694 - 1778)
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  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2005 at 15:13

I really can't see anything but Rome winning from that list. I can see though that there could be a challenge on the ground it wasn't really a city-state, not for long anyway.

On the other hand, how come the others in the list get to be classed as empires?

In fact I'm somewhat worried by the idea that something can be a city-state and an empire, both at the same time.

 

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  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2005 at 20:44
Venice was dissolved by Napoleon as he threatend to blow it out of the water with his guns.  One of the many reasons I hate Napoleon.
"the people are nothing but a great beast...
I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value."
-Alexander Hamilton
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  Quote Lannes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2005 at 23:35

I went with Sparta (I have leanings). 

The lifestyle and dedication of the Spartans are admirable.  Additionally, I admire their administrative setup.  Their uniquely functioning three-class system is especially interesting.

Can't argue they had an empire to match Rome's, or even Athens's, but it definately paved the way for future conquests eastwards.

τρέφεται δέ, ὤ Σώκρατης, ψυχὴ τίνι;
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  Quote vulkan02 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2005 at 23:38
Ashur or Assyria....
Laid the foundation for all the other empires to come.
The beginning of a revolution is in reality the end of a belief - Le Bon
Destroy first and construction will look after itself - Mao
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  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2005 at 05:10

The Venetian Republic ended in 1797 thanks to the threats of Napoleon. The Venetians surrendered without a shot being fired, after happily living in a state of blissful inviolability for centuries upon centuries. John Julius Norwich gives a good account of it all.

As for best city-state cum Empire I pick Rome. Let's face it, up until the point it made the transition from a city with an empire to an empire with a city I don't think another single city in the world had carved out such an impressive dominion.

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  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jul-2005 at 03:35
What Venice, Genoa, Pisa and other cities were for the Mediterranean, the cities of the Hanseatic League were for the Northern European area.
The Free Cities of Hamburg, Luebeck, Bremen etc. were rich and influentual city states that dominated trade in Germany, the North Sea and the Baltic from the 12th to the mid 15th century.
The status of Hamburg and Bremen during the Middle Ages, as independent city states only subject to the HRE Emperor, has virtually been preserved until today, as they are both still independent states inside the federal system of the BRD.
That surely must be some kind of record!

Wikipedia on the Hanseatic League
[IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg">
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  Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jul-2005 at 03:49
Ofcourse, I live in Estonia (we had like 4 or 5 Hansa cities) and i forgot Lbeck, whose rights dominated on Baltic Sea, whilst it gave city-rights (to Tallinn) and was a enourmous trade center.
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  Quote Winterhaze13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2005 at 12:16
Originally posted by Constantine XI

The Venetian Republic ended in 1797 thanks to the threats of Napoleon. The Venetians surrendered without a shot being fired, after happily living in a state of blissful inviolability for centuries upon centuries. John Julius Norwich gives a good account of it all.

As for best city-state cum Empire I pick Rome. Let's face it, up until the point it made the transition from a city with an empire to an empire with a city I don't think another single city in the world had carved out such an impressive dominion.

That's right!!

Indeed, history is nothing more than a tableau of crimes and misfortunes.

-- Voltaire
French author, humanist, rationalist, & satirist (1694 - 1778)
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