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"Slavic settlements in the Balkans"

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  Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: "Slavic settlements in the Balkans"
    Posted: 11-Jun-2008 at 22:40
Originally posted by Slayertplsko

Oh yes we do. Romans didn't call Greeks Illinoi did they?


Nope, they called the Grecoi which was the name of only one tribe from Beottia and Epirus, just like the middle easterns called them Yunan/Yawan/Yauna (from the Ionians) etc.


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  Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jun-2008 at 23:14
Originally posted by Flipper

Nope, they called the Grecoi which was the name of only one tribe from Beottia and Epirus, just like the middle easterns called them Yunan/Yawan/Yauna (from the Ionians) etc.
 
Correct me if I am wrong. I thought it sounded like "Greci" not "Grekoi". Although I left my Latin knowledge at the place where I learned it so I can easely be mistaken. Smile
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  Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2008 at 06:17
Anton you're not wrong...Basically you will see it written in many ways. Sometimes you will see a translitteration and other times you will see a transcription. 


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  Quote Slayertplsko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2008 at 08:50
Originally posted by Carpathian Wolf

That's irrelevant. My point is the only thing linking Illyrians to Albanians directly is the name, but the name wasn't used by the latter group. They don't call themselves anything close to Albanian or Illyrian.


True. And my point is that 'Albani/Arbanoi' is irrelevant, because we don't know how they really called themselves - and that's what you've built your argument on. But I don't know anything about Albanian language (I mean I don't speak it) and neither about Illyrian, so I can't compare them. But I've got a feeling that's your case as well.
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  Quote Slayertplsko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2008 at 09:00
Originally posted by Anton

Originally posted by Flipper

Nope, they called the Grecoi which was the name of only one tribe from Beottia and Epirus, just like the middle easterns called them Yunan/Yawan/Yauna (from the Ionians) etc.
 
Correct me if I am wrong. I thought it sounded like "Greci" not "Grekoi". Although I left my Latin knowledge at the place where I learned it so I can easely be mistaken. Smile


In classical Latin, 'c' was always pronounced as 'k'.

http://www.ai.uga.edu/mc/latinpro.pdf
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  Quote GoldenBlood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2008 at 17:09
Originally posted by Slayertplsko

Originally posted by Carpathian Wolf

So The byzantine chornicles can refer to Arbanoi all they want, that isn't a name you use for yourself.


And did Arbanoi call themselves 'arbanoi'?Smile 
You know, Slavs called the Germans niemtsy, Romans called them Germani...they called themselves differently.


We called themself Arbresh, Arben (Tosk Dialect), Arban (Geg dialect)...

Venedians/Latins called us: Arbanese and Albanese (example Skanderbeg was called George Arbanese)

Sllavs: Arbanasi (now call Albanci)
Greeks: Arvanites (now call Alvani)
Turks: Arnavut (derived from Arvanites)

ect.
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  Quote GoldenBlood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2008 at 17:19
Originally posted by Carpathian Wolf

That's irrelevant. My point is the only thing linking Illyrians to Albanians directly is the name, but the name wasn't used by the latter group. They don't call themselves anything close to Albanian or Illyrian.


Only think is not only name linking to Illyrians (since illyrians did not write their history or has extinct writes) but also Ethnology, Mythotology-Traditions, Culture and some illyrian names (tomponimes, kings...example first illyrian king was Ylli and mean only albanian language STAR or second illyrian king was Bardhylli that mean WhiteStar in alb language ect)

Dont forget about native Balcanians did not writet history (until XIV Century), there mentioned only Byzantines, Romans (but not native people like Albanians, Greeks, Romanians/Vlachs).


Edited by GoldenBlood - 12-Jun-2008 at 17:24
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  Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2008 at 19:24
Originally posted by Slayertplsko


In classical Latin, 'c' was always pronounced as 'k'.

http://www.ai.uga.edu/mc/latinpro.pdf
 
Yes, I remember that. Thnx. My point was that ending "-oi" iz Greek. Latin should be "-i" for plural.
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  Quote Carpathian Wolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jun-2008 at 22:30
"We called themself Arbresh, Arben (Tosk Dialect), Arban (Geg dialect)..."
 
But you don't use that name today... So whatever the Illyrians called themselves if it was that makes no difference.
 
"Only think is not only name linking to Illyrians (since illyrians did not write their history or has extinct writes) but also Ethnology, Mythotology-Traditions, Culture and some illyrian names (tomponimes, kings...example first illyrian king was Ylli and mean only albanian language STAR or second illyrian king was Bardhylli that mean WhiteStar in alb language ect)"

No doubt Albanians have some Illyrian in them. But no more then the Serbs or Croats. In fact wasn't most of Illyria further north? Present day Albania was only slightly part of Illyria. And i'm talking about the actual nation, not the Roman province which wasn't completely accurate.
 
"Dont forget about native Balcanians did not writet history (until XIV Century), there mentioned only Byzantines, Romans (but not native people like Albanians, Greeks, Romanians/Vlachs)."

Turkics mentioned us (Romanians) in 816. Byz mention us in the 400s under the name of Ausonians. Greeks were Romans at the time.
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  Quote vranakonti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jun-2008 at 01:02
Originally posted by Carpathian Wolf

 
But you don't use that name today... So whatever the Illyrians called themselves if it was that makes no difference.
 
You are wrong.If you had some basic knowledge of Albanias modern history you would now that the term "Shqipetar" is relatively new,and it was brought in fashion by the Albanian romantic literature.Shqipe means eagle a very common animal here,and perfect to describe people liveing in a mountainous territory like ours,and the Albanians temper in general.Furthermore Scanderbegs coat of arm was an eagle,and his figure was of great importance in the birth of Albanian nationalism.
Then,we have the Arbereshs,Albanians that emigrated in italy after Scanderbegs death,and they never called themselves Shqipetar,and do not have any memory that name.
 

No doubt Albanians have some Illyrian in them. But no more then the Serbs or Croats. In fact wasn't most of Illyria further north? Present day Albania was only slightly part of Illyria. And i'm talking about the actual nation, not the Roman province which wasn't completely accurate.
How can you say that?I don't think "par  condicio" is needed in this case,why would we share our Illyrian herritage,(Its what most of scholars claim)with people that are slavs speak a slavic language and consider themselves slavs?And sorry if we live in only a small part of ancient illyria,but if you have missed it,there was smth (and not only that) called slavic migration.
 

 
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  Quote Carpathian Wolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jun-2008 at 06:14
"
You are wrong.If you had some basic knowledge of Albanias modern history you would now that the term "Shqipetar" is relatively new,and it was brought in fashion by the Albanian romantic literature.Shqipe means eagle a very common animal here,and perfect to describe people liveing in a mountainous territory like ours,and the Albanians temper in general.Furthermore Scanderbegs coat of arm was an eagle,and his figure was of great importance in the birth of Albanian nationalism."
 
I know enough that shqipetare also is related to one of the wealthier families in Albania. Throughout history we see Illyria in the Balkans and Albania in the caucasian mountains. Next we see Illyria vanish, Albania vanish from the caucasian mountains to later reapear in the Balkans with the Turkish invasion.
 
"How can you say that?I don't think "par  condicio" is needed in this case,why would we share our Illyrian herritage,(Its what most of scholars claim)with people that are slavs speak a slavic language and consider themselves slavs?And sorry if we live in only a small part of ancient illyria,but if you have missed it,there was smth (and not only that) called slavic migration."
 
Speaking slav yes but all the Balkans has a similar substratum. Considering themselves slav is in part a political thing. For example in the 1800s starting in Croatia there was an Illyrian movement to unify all the people's the old Roman province of Illyria (not to be confused with the actual Illyrian holdings). Later on the Croats didn't consider themselves Slavs at all during WW2 for obvious reasons when they were Hitler's right hand man. I'd say they're about half slav half thracian (illyrians being a sub group of thracians.)
 
You speak of a migration and many people here do but they seem to misunderstand the logistics behind it all. Migrations did move a lot of people but in the Balkans a lot of the time the groups migrating where much smaller then the groups already present.
 
Now as for the Serbs, originally they weren't Slavs. They were a ruling class atop Slavs with an Iranian origin (or so i have read) related with the Alani. And the slavs under them kept the name and the "original" Serbs melted into the slavs. The same way the "Viking" Rus ruled over the Slavs in Russia and eventually semi melted into the slav population there. In both cases the slavs kept the name of their ruling class.
 
As for the Albanian language i'm not sure how Illyrian it is to be quite honest. From what I have heard to my ear it sounds like muffled/mumbled latinate type language. I had one Albanian being very insulting to me saying "We're Illyrians and maintained the orignal language while you guys got #$%^ by the Romans!" And then proceeded to say the Albanian "Viata este scurta." I'm sure with little imagination you can read what that says even in your language. "Life is short."
 
I think it is more probable that the Albanians are in part Illyrian/Tharcian, but again the same as the Serb/Croats. The Albanian element itself (not Illyrian) migrated with the Turks. I've also heard a theory about the Albanian kingdom near Armenia that was destroyed, it's people were taken as slave soldiers by the Muslims and were used in the invasion of Sicily. Later when the Byzantines retook the island, they themselves hired the Albanians to garrison the Balkans. This corresponds directly with Anna Comnenus' first mention of the Albanians.
 
To say the least, there is much much more we need to learn before we are sure of ourselves. And to say Albanians = Illyrians is a gross simplifcation. Then we start getting into other fallacies such as the Albanian/Illyrians being the original Greeks and we take a sharp turn at nationalistic expansionism. It all builds upon itself.
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  Quote vranakonti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jun-2008 at 12:15
 
 
I know enough that shqipetare also is related to one of the wealthier families in Albania. Throughout history we see Illyria in the Balkans and Albania in the caucasian mountains. Next we see Illyria vanish, Albania vanish from the caucasian mountains to later reapear in the Balkans with the Turkish invasion.
 
Which family,never heard about,is this some new serbian theory?The only wealthy Albanian familes i know are the Albani,Giovanni Francesco Albani known as pope Clemente XI is the most renowned of them,and the Durrazzo,9 doges of the Republic of Genoa were members of this family.
Well since you are so informed about you should know that the caucasian Albanians spoke a form of Armenian,so if you find the link between Albanian and Armanian then ill agree with you.Also Scotlands ancient name was Albania,and it looks like yo forgot that names like Albanoi and Albanopolis were recorded by Ptolemy and Polibius in the modern territory of Albania.So stop with this Caucasian theory its just nationalist crap,invented by serbian scholars,that even a child can disclaim.
 
 
 
Speaking slav yes but all the Balkans has a similar substratum. Considering themselves slav is in part a political thing. For example in the 1800s starting in Croatia there was an Illyrian movement to unify all the people's the old Roman province of Illyria (not to be confused with the actual Illyrian holdings). Later on the Croats didn't consider themselves Slavs at all during WW2 for obvious reasons when they were Hitler's right hand man. I'd say they're about half slav half thracian (illyrians being a sub group of thracians.)
 
You speak of a migration and many people here do but they seem to misunderstand the logistics behind it all. Migrations did move a lot of people but in the Balkans a lot of the time the groups migrating where much smaller then the groups already present.
 
Now as for the Serbs, originally they weren't Slavs. They were a ruling class atop Slavs with an Iranian origin (or so i have read) related with the Alani. And the slavs under them kept the name and the "original" Serbs melted into the slavs. The same way the "Viking" Rus ruled over the Slavs in Russia and eventually semi melted into the slav population there. In both cases the slavs kept the name of their ruling class.
 
As for the Albanian language i'm not sure how Illyrian it is to be quite honest. From what I have heard to my ear it sounds like muffled/mumbled latinate type language. I had one Albanian being very insulting to me saying "We're Illyrians and maintained the orignal language while you guys got #$%^ by the Romans!" And then proceeded to say the Albanian "Viata este scurta." I'm sure with little imagination you can read what that says even in your language. "Life is short."
 
I think it is more probable that the Albanians are in part Illyrian/Tharcian, but again the same as the Serb/Croats. The Albanian element itself (not Illyrian) migrated with the Turks. I've also heard a theory about the Albanian kingdom near Armenia that was destroyed, it's people were taken as slave soldiers by the Muslims and were used in the invasion of Sicily. Later when the Byzantines retook the island, they themselves hired the Albanians to garrison the Balkans. This corresponds directly with Anna Comnenus' first mention of the Albanians.
 
To say the least, there is much much more we need to learn before we are sure of ourselves. And to say Albanians = Illyrians is a gross simplifcation. Then we start getting into other fallacies such as the Albanian/Illyrians being the original Greeks and we take a sharp turn at nationalistic expansionism. It all builds upon itself.
 
How Albanian sounds to you is irrelevant,also that there was an "Illyrian" movement in Croatia.Don't confuse politics with history,today we have more than 1'000'000 of slav balkanians that not only call themselves,macedonians but also consider themselves descendents of Ancient ones,though none takes them seriously on historical matters.Yes we have a lot of latin in our language but at least we still have a language of our own,not latin,not slavic,turkic or armenian but simply Albanian,and we are quite proud of it.
So the Albanian-Illyrian connection,for you is just a fallacie and fancy tales like this Armenian-"some moslem country"-Sicily-Albania jurney is worth to consider??Guess why.
 
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  Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jun-2008 at 14:38
Originally posted by Anton

Originally posted by Slayertplsko


In classical Latin, 'c' was always pronounced as 'k'.

http://www.ai.uga.edu/mc/latinpro.pdf
 
Yes, I remember that. Thnx. My point was that ending "-oi" iz Greek. Latin should be "-i" for plural.


Very correct.


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  Quote Carpathian Wolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jun-2008 at 18:28
"Which family,never heard about,is this some new serbian theory?The only wealthy Albanian familes i know are the Albani,Giovanni Francesco Albani known as pope Clemente XI is the most renowned of them,and the Durrazzo,9 doges of the Republic of Genoa were members of this family."
 
The family was simply called Sqiptar or something of that sort. I'm not really argueing, just relaying one of the sources of the name today that I have heard.
 
"Well since you are so informed about you should know that the caucasian Albanians spoke a form of Armenian,so if you find the link between Albanian and Armanian then ill agree with you.Also Scotlands ancient name was Albania,and it looks like yo forgot that names like Albanoi and Albanopolis were recorded by Ptolemy and Polibius in the modern territory of Albania.So stop with this Caucasian theory its just nationalist crap,invented by serbian scholars,that even a child can disclaim."
 
Actually the name of Scotland was Alba not Albania. Alba is a gailic word.
 
Here is the thing though, Albanoi, Albanopolis could be recorded in the bible for all I care, you never used the name for yourself. If you did i'd like to see a chronicle of it.
 
I don't know why you are bringing any mention of Serbs historians into this. I'd prefer you didn't bring your nationalistic/political angst into a discussion about history.
 
"How Albanian sounds to you is irrelevant,also that there was an "Illyrian" movement in Croatia.Don't confuse politics with history,today we have more than 1'000'000 of slav balkanians that not only call themselves,macedonians but also consider themselves descendents of Ancient ones,though none takes them seriously on historical matters."
 
But confusing history with politics is particulary what is going on, with certain elements echoing the goals, and methods of the 2nd league of prizren. I think the "macedonians" are taken as seriously as the "illyrians" in this aspect. ;)
 
"Yes we have a lot of latin in our language but at least we still have a language of our own,not latin,not slavic,turkic or armenian but simply Albanian,and we are quite proud of it."
 
This was the exact attitude I was just giving an example of.
 
 
"So the Albanian-Illyrian connection,for you is just a fallacie and fancy tales like this Armenian-"some moslem country"-Sicily-Albania jurney is worth to consider??Guess why."
 
I considered both and I havn't made up my mind quite yet. Right now I am leaning on the Albanians being no more Illyrian then the Croats/Serbs. And all three having quite a bit of slavic in them. There is just a lot of lacking in the information concerning an Illyrian-Albanian connection.
 
Concerning for example the history of my people:
 
Nicolaus Olahus, a Transylvanian Humanist of Romanian (Wallachian?) extraction, received in 1541 a diploma from Ferdinand of Habsburg. The diploma also said (I didn't find the original text, I'm translating after a translation): "your co-national Vlachs do not have a humble origin at all. Indeed, it is known they descend from Rome, the city of the emperors, and that they were settled in a very rich side of Dacia which is called Transalpina to stop the attacks of the ancient enemies in Roman provinces. That's why even today they call themselves Romans in their language."
 
Do you have something like that that I can read?
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  Quote vranakonti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jun-2008 at 01:15
 The family was simply called Sqiptar or something of that sort. I'm not really argueing, just relaying one of the sources of the name today that I have heard.
 
Then lets forget about it.
 
Actually the name of Scotland was Alba not Albania. Alba is a gailic word.
 
Maybe it is gaelic,it might be illyrian latin,celtic as well.The root of the word is "alb" probably(not sure though) meaning white or mountain.Alp might have the same origin.
And were is the difference beetwen Alba and Albania or Albani or Albanoi.How do you think people of Alba were called?  
 
Here is the thing though, Albanoi, Albanopolis could be recorded in the bible for all I care, you never used the name for yourself. If you did i'd like to see a chronicle of it.
 
The argument of the Albanians in italy and greece that call themselves simply arber  and their mother country arberia its not enough for you?Here you have some chronicles..
Two of the chronicles are from Albanian authors,and be sure,you will never find the term Shqiptar anywhere.
 
I don't know why you are bringing any mention of Serbs historians into this. I'd prefer you didn't bring your nationalistic/political angst into a discussion about history.
 
Sorry for doing that,but what you brought here,the caucasian "link",is an exclusively serbian theory.
 
But confusing history with politics is particulary what is going on, with certain elements echoing the goals, and methods of the 2nd league of prizren. I think the "macedonians" are taken as seriously as the "illyrians" in this aspect. ;)
 
Then why do you bring here smth like the second prizren league?Its your love for history that made you doing that?Man if you are not serb,at least you are very well informed about their version of history.Do you know what was the situation of Albanians in yugoslavia before ww2?
Read this than come here and talk about our methotds:
 
 
 
This was the exact attitude I was just giving an example of.
 
So that's bad?!Confused
 
 
 
I considered both and I havn't made up my mind quite yet. Right now I am leaning on the Albanians being no more Illyrian then the Croats/Serbs. And all three having quite a bit of slavic in them. There is just a lot of lacking in the information concerning an Illyrian-Albanian connection.
 
Concerning for example the history of my people:
 
Nicolaus Olahus, a Transylvanian Humanist of Romanian (Wallachian?) extraction, received in 1541 a diploma from Ferdinand of Habsburg. The diploma also said (I didn't find the original text, I'm translating after a translation): "your co-national Vlachs do not have a humble origin at all. Indeed, it is known they descend from Rome, the city of the emperors, and that they were settled in a very rich side of Dacia which is called Transalpina to stop the attacks of the ancient enemies in Roman provinces. That's why even today they call themselves Romans in their language."
 
Do you have something like that that I can read?
 
first of all this kind of textes do not have an historical relevance,concerning ancient history.But i have some of that kind.
 
Scanderbegs letter to the prince of Taranto,during his campaigns in italy he uses only the term Albanian or Epirote,and he also says that their origins are from Epirus,and their ancestours fought with Alexander the great.
 
Having made a truce with the enemy of my religion I have not wanted that my friend remain (fraudato) of my aid. (Spesse?) times, Alfonso, his father, invited my help while I waged war against the Turks. Therefore I would be very ungrateful if I had not resisted (lÕistesso?) service to his son. I remember what your king did because now (non deve vedere succedergli?) this who is his son? You adored his father, and why now do you try to throw out his son? Where did this power come from? Who has the power to set up the King of Sicily, you or the Roman Pontiff?

I came to aid Ferrante, son of the king and seat of the Apostolica. I came opposing your unfaithfulness and innumerable great betrayals in this kingdom. Will you ever be unpunished for your perjury. This is the reason for my war against you. I merit this no less than I merited making war against the Turks, nor are you less Turk than them. (ImperoccheÕ vi sono alcuni?) that guide you in a straight line not to be of some sect. You my opponents the French and the names of those people, and those for the religion wage grand war.

I do not want to dispute ancient matters with you, matters that perhaps were much less than what was told about them. Certainly in our times the Aragonese armadas have often coursed the Aegean Sea, have plundered the Turkish coasts, have (riportata?) the prey of the enemies; and even today the Aragonese armies defend Troja from the jaws of the enemy. Why do I remember the old things and leave the new parts? If they change the family costumes and the plowmen of the kingdom, and the kings of the plowmen return? (NeÕ troverai nobilitaÕ piuÕ antica della virtuÕ.)

Nor can I deny that you are not with the obnoxious French nation, (imperoccheÕ) you being mainly in aid of King Alfonso, you hunted the French of this kingdom. I do not know now what new virtue shines in this. Perhaps it is some new star that you have now seen among the French?

Moreover, you scorned our people, and compared the Albanese to sheep, and according to your custom think of us with insults. Nor have you shown yourself to have any knowledge of my race. My elders were from Epirus, where this Pirro came from, whose force could scarcely support the Romans. This Pirro, who Taranto and many other places of Italy held back with armies.

I do not have to speak for the Epiroti. They are very much stronger men than your Tarantini, a species of wet men who are born only to fish. If you want to say that Albania is part of Macedonia I would concede that a lot more of our ancestors were nobles who went as far as India under Alexander the Great and defeated all those peoples with incredible difficulty. From those men come these who you called sheep. But the nature of things is not changed. Why do your men run away in the faces of sheep?

In the past the Albanese have (fatto?) experience if the Pugilese were armed; (neÕ) I would again find some who would have been able to aspired to my nature. I have well noted from the back how many of your soldiers are well armed but have never been able to see their helmets or (tanpoco?) the face except those that have become prisoners. (NeÕ?) I seek your house (Bastandomi?) my own. Besides, it is well known that you often would have shot your neighbors for their possessions, as now you would force out the king of your house and your kingdom.

(Che se?) If I fall in the difficult task I have embarked on I will be buried as (mi vai?) wishing in your letter, will bring back my soul as a reward from the Chancellor of the universe, of God. Not only will I have perfected my intention, but also I will have planned and attempted some distinguished deed.

Good bye

The first link i posted might work too,especially the part where Muzaki speaks about his family origins.
 
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  Quote Carpathian Wolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jun-2008 at 02:10
"And were is the difference beetwen Alba and Albania or Albani or Albanoi.How do you think people of Alba were called?"
 
The point was that Scotland was never called Albania. Alb means white, even in my language. It doesn't make it Albania. You either lied or were misinformed about Scotland's name.
 
"The argument of the Albanians in italy and greece that call themselves simply arber  and their mother country arberia its not enough for you?Here you have some chronicles.."
 
Could you show me where? I'm not going to read a book to find one sentence detailing your point. And even so there is a bit of a difference between Arberia and Albania. Because like that maybe Bucharest and Budapest are the same cities too? No.
 
"So that's bad?!Confused"
 
he used alot more colorful words but it was the same defensive flinching chalked up to political backed history.
 
"Scanderbegs letter to the prince of Taranto,during his campaigns in italy he uses only the term Albanian or Epirote,and he also says that their origins are from Epirus,and their ancestours fought with Alexander the great."
 
He speaks about his Epirot origin...but that's neither Albanian or Illyrian. I don't see any Illyrian term there. Besides wasn't Skanderbeg part Greek/Serb? Didn't he use the Byzantine seal which the Albanians took and use as their own even today? Did Albania even exist in Skanderbeg's time as a nation? If not then how could he be fighting for Albania?
 
Illyrians was also a Greek term used for people beyond thrace on the adriatic coast. It wasn't a specific name. The weight of Illyrian as a term is pretty much "Thracians that lived a little bit further away."
 
The name Illyrian died out but was brought back alive by the Habsburgs to refer to the south slavs beliving they were slavified Illyrians. This is probably more accurate then what albania.com a political nationalistic website that says alexander the great and aristotle were albanians, would say.
 
Epirus in mythology was the daugther of Echion and Agave who were Greeks.
 
Didn't Marin Barleti argue a Caucasian origin of the Albanians? And that Michael Attaliates had bought many as mercenaries and they brought their families. Or the Turkish term which means "those who did not belong" in refrence to Albanian mercenaries from the caucasian mountains.
 
Interesting thing I have found:
 
CHECHENIA=ICHQERIA
ALBANIA=SHQIPTERIA
Chechen=aakharkho,Albanian=katundar,Engl ish=peasan t
Chechen=alsamoo,Albanian=me shume,English=more
Chechen=aagan,Albanian=eker,English=wild
Chechen=aara dalan,Albanian=jashte dal,English=get out
Chechen=aaradaqqa,Albanian=terhoqa,Engli sh=withdra w
Chechen=aaradovlilla,Albanian=rrugedalje ,English=e xit
Chechen=aare,Albanian=rrafsh,English=pla in
Chechen=arzha,Albanian=zeze,English=blac k
Chechen=aaz,Albanian=ze,English=voice
Chechen=baarz,Albanian=varr,English=grav e
Chechen=banka,Albanian=burre,English=man
Chechen=baar,Albanian=arre,English=nut
Chechen=bashkhan,Albanian=shkelqyer,Engl ish=excell ent
Chechen=bekhka,Albanian=borxh,English=de bt,obligat ion
Chechen=bil ma,Albanian=fal me,English=im sorry
Chechen=besan,Albanian=zbehte,English=pa le
Chechen=buha,Albanian=buf,English=owl
Chechen=cham,Albanian=shijshem,English=t asty
Chechen=yaalla,waala,Albanian=eja,Englis h=come here
Chechen=chu,Albanian=hyj,English=get in
Chechen=daago,Albanian=djeg,English=burn
Chechen=dahiita,Albanian=dergoj,English= send
Chechen=dehndi,Albanian=gjedhe,English=c attle
Chechen=dain,Albanian=drite,English=ligh t
Chechen=daakhkan,Albanian=gjendem,Englis h=located
Chechen=delqa,Albanian=dreke,English=lun ch
Chechen=dowgha,Albanian=djeges,English=h ot
Chechen=duq,Albanian=aq,English=so many
Chechen=dyelkha,Albanian=kerkoj,English= to cry
Chechen=eskar,Albanian=ushtri,English=ar my
Chechen=ghaighanii,Albanian=hidheroj,Eng lish=make sad
Chechen=ghaala,Albanian=kala,English=cas tle
Chechen=gaalat,Albanian=gabim,English=mi stake
Chechen=ghishto,Albanian=ngrehine,Englis h=building
Chechen=gharlima,Albanian=ngrirje,Englis h=freezing
Chechen=goola,Albanian=gju,English=knee
Chechen=hakkha,Albanian=terheq,English=d raw
Chechen=hoqa,Albanian=kete,English=this
Chechen=hostam,Albanian=gozhde,English=n ail
Chechen=khalkhar,Albanian=kercej,English =dance
Chechen=khan,Albanian=kohe,English=time
Chechen=khasbesh,Albanian=kopesht,Englis h=garden
Chechen=keeda,Albanian=qetem,English=cut
Chechen=khena,Albanian=kohe,English=weat her
Chechen=khila,Albanian=qene,English=been
Chechen=khilam,Albanian=kam,English=have
Chechen=kho,Albanian=koqeve,English=egg
Chechen=kog,Albanian=kembe,English=leg,f oot
Chechen=Iighana,Albanian=Inatosur,Englis h=Angry
Chechen=nana,Albanian=nene,English=mothe r
Chechen=Ysh,Albanian=Ishin,english=they were
Chechen=shu,Albanian=ju,English=you
 
Good bye :)
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  Quote Scanderbeg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jun-2008 at 15:44
oi man, how does this relate?
Chechen=gaalat,Albanian=gabim,English=mi stake
or
Chechen=Iighana,Albanian=Inatosur,Englis h=Angry
I mean, c'mon.
Could you show me where? I'm not going to read a book to find one sentence detailing your point. And even so there is a bit of a difference between Arberia and Albania. Because like that maybe Bucharest and Budapest are the same cities too? No.

Hello, it's the internet era:

Late in the 12th century, the first independent principality of Albania (Arbania) was established on the territory of present-day central Albania, having its capital at Kruja (Krujë). In the sources, the princes, who stood at the head of the small formation, are referred to as Arbëreshes (Arbanians).

The name "Albania" is derived from the same Proto-Indo-European root as "Alps"; an Illyrian tribe of "mountain folk" called the Arber, or Arberesh�, and later Albanoi, lived near Durrës. That is why Albanians are sometimes (very rarely) also called "Arbanians" in the neighboorhood. Personal name "Alban" has probably the same roots.

Thing is, there are a few theories, from raging irredentist Serbian bullocks, to those based on common sense logic. My personal interpretation would be that the letters "l" and "r" in a word construction as "albania/arbania" are pronounced almost the same way*, therefore it is not hard to imagine that Europeans started calling us Albanians, rather than Arbanians, after all it did sound all the same to them.

Epirus in mythology was the daugther of Echion and Agave who were Greeks.

Greeks, eh? in what year? Never mind, this is not a way to form an argument, the myths are nowadays known as "greek mythologies" (quite an oxymoron, no?), so one has the modern day media and opinion filled up with false historical ideas.

Didn't Marin Barleti argue a Caucasian origin of the Albanians? And that Michael Attaliates had bought many as mercenaries and they brought their families. Or the Turkish term which means "those who did not belong" in refrence to Albanian mercenaries from the caucasian mountains.

You mean "arnaut"? For the other part citation needed.


Illyrians was also a Greek term used for people beyond thrace on the adriatic coast. It wasn't a specific name. The weight of Illyrian as a term is pretty much "Thracians that lived a little bit further away."


Elaborate on this point, the meaning of the name Illyria, I'm sure it will be fun, coming from a person who has no clue whatsoever what Albanian language sounds like.

*in the Germanic languages



Edited by Scanderbeg - 14-Jun-2008 at 15:45
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  Quote GoldenBlood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jun-2008 at 15:58
Originally posted by Carpathian Wolf

 
Interesting thing I have found:
 
CHECHENIA=ICHQERIA
ALBANIA=SHQIPTERIA
Chechen=aakharkho,Albanian=katundar,Engl ish=peasan t
Chechen=alsamoo,Albanian=me shume,English=more
Chechen=aagan,Albanian=eker,English=wild
Chechen=aara dalan,Albanian=jashte dal,English=get out
Chechen=aaradaqqa,Albanian=terhoqa,Engli sh=withdra w
Chechen=aaradovlilla,Albanian=rrugedalje ,English=e xit
Chechen=aare,Albanian=rrafsh,English=pla in
Chechen=arzha,Albanian=zeze,English=blac k
Chechen=aaz,Albanian=ze,English=voice
Chechen=baarz,Albanian=varr,English=grav e
Chechen=banka,Albanian=burre,English=man
Chechen=baar,Albanian=arre,English=nut
Chechen=bashkhan,Albanian=shkelqyer,Engl ish=excell ent
Chechen=bekhka,Albanian=borxh,English=de bt,obligat ion
Chechen=bil ma,Albanian=fal me,English=im sorry
Chechen=besan,Albanian=zbehte,English=pa le
Chechen=buha,Albanian=buf,English=owl
Chechen=cham,Albanian=shijshem,English=t asty
Chechen=yaalla,waala,Albanian=eja,Englis h=come here
Chechen=chu,Albanian=hyj,English=get in
Chechen=daago,Albanian=djeg,English=burn
Chechen=dahiita,Albanian=dergoj,English= send
Chechen=dehndi,Albanian=gjedhe,English=c attle
Chechen=dain,Albanian=drite,English=ligh t
Chechen=daakhkan,Albanian=gjendem,Englis h=located
Chechen=delqa,Albanian=dreke,English=lun ch
Chechen=dowgha,Albanian=djeges,English=h ot
Chechen=duq,Albanian=aq,English=so many
Chechen=dyelkha,Albanian=kerkoj,English= to cry
Chechen=eskar,Albanian=ushtri,English=ar my
Chechen=ghaighanii,Albanian=hidheroj,Eng lish=make sad
Chechen=ghaala,Albanian=kala,English=cas tle
Chechen=gaalat,Albanian=gabim,English=mi stake
Chechen=ghishto,Albanian=ngrehine,Englis h=building
Chechen=gharlima,Albanian=ngrirje,Englis h=freezing
Chechen=goola,Albanian=gju,English=knee
Chechen=hakkha,Albanian=terheq,English=d raw
Chechen=hoqa,Albanian=kete,English=this
Chechen=hostam,Albanian=gozhde,English=n ail
Chechen=khalkhar,Albanian=kercej,English =dance
Chechen=khan,Albanian=kohe,English=time
Chechen=khasbesh,Albanian=kopesht,Englis h=garden
Chechen=keeda,Albanian=qetem,English=cut
Chechen=khena,Albanian=kohe,English=weat her
Chechen=khila,Albanian=qene,English=been
Chechen=khilam,Albanian=kam,English=have
Chechen=kho,Albanian=koqeve,English=egg
Chechen=kog,Albanian=kembe,English=leg,f oot
Chechen=Iighana,Albanian=Inatosur,Englis h=Angry
Chechen=nana,Albanian=nene,English=mothe r
Chechen=Ysh,Albanian=Ishin,english=they were
Chechen=shu,Albanian=ju,English=you
 
Good bye :)


Carpathian, you proved that you are just ignorant and dont have idea about balcan history...those words are all non-sense and un-true.. has writet from one serbian kidd (forum member) to kidding with other members.

you are worse than kid.

you were one who ask about links (or authors/historian/linguist)...where is yours joke?

anyway chechens dont call themself ischeria but Noche and others call them chechens...and others words here are very funny.

Chechens (Chechen: Hохчи / Noxçi) constitute the largest native ethnic group originating in the North Caucasus region. They refer to themselves as Nokhchii (singular Nokhchi or Nokhcho), which comes from the name of a large Chechen tribe, the Nokhchmekhkakhoi, and their homeland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chechen_people


Edited by GoldenBlood - 14-Jun-2008 at 16:03
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  Quote Slayertplsko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jun-2008 at 16:04
It is not really true that 'r' and 'l' are pronounced almost the same in Germanic languages.
It would be the case in English, since it mostly uses alveolar approximant for 'r'. Other Germanic language, however, differ at this point. German (most of its dialects) and Danish (and Dutch?) use uvular trill, which is completely different from the 'l' sound. Swedish, Norwegian, Icelandic and Faroese use alveolar trill, sometimes reduced to approximant before consonants ('morgen' in some Norwegian accents and countless other words). Some southern accents of German use this trill as well. Uvular trill is further spread to some southern Swedish and Norwegian dialects. The dialects/languages that use the uvular form often reduce it to a fricative.

Still, 'r' and 'l' are both liquids and thus are closely related, it happens that they are mixed - even little kinds who have problems with the pronunciation of alveolar trill often substitude it with a 'l' sound.


Edited by Slayertplsko - 14-Jun-2008 at 16:06
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  Quote GoldenBlood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Jun-2008 at 16:07
of you want to talk relation caucaus...cuacasus influence is very big (aswell among serbs) in their language, tradicional costumes and racial...there have theory slavic language have  30% caucaus influence, when on Albanian language is 0%.

Albanian language compare to all Indo-European language have most low influence from Persian (indo-european language) and Caucasus (non-indoeuropean language).

Carpathian the kid, you try to post articles of serb members (but not historians) to response us?, joke, study of Albanian history is very significant from all European Science Funds and you try to response with your serbian childs forums Big%20smile



Edited by GoldenBlood - 14-Jun-2008 at 16:15
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