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Hagia Sofia-The jewel of the Byzantine Empire

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  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Hagia Sofia-The jewel of the Byzantine Empire
    Posted: 04-Jul-2005 at 07:58

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  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jul-2005 at 08:01

"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)
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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jul-2005 at 08:10

 

i still cant understan how could the turkish converted it to a mosque while there are such paintings of humans in it?

 

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  Quote Raider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jul-2005 at 08:12

 

" still cant understan how could the turkish converted it to a mosque while there are such paintings of humans in it?"

It was originally repainted. Now as much as I know it is not a mosque now, but a museum and the original mosaics were restored. It is really impressive.

Emperor John Comnenus and his wife St. Eirene (Piroska) daughter of St. Ladislas, princess of Hungary.



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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jul-2005 at 13:33
Originally posted by azimuth

 

i still cant understan how could the turkish converted it to a mosque while there are such paintings of humans in it?

Those paintings doesnt exist on the walls, because as you mentioned, you cannot pray somewhere with pics, sculptures etc. according to Islam. The walls were recovered with Islamic/Turkic figures.

I am happy to agree on some topic with Greeks. Agia Sofia is a beautiful Roman building, like all other Byzanthine and Ottoman monuments.

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  Quote Byzantine Emperor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jul-2005 at 16:19
Wow, those are beautiful pictures!  I haven't seen photos taken from the floor of the church, did you take them?
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  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Jul-2005 at 16:38

If i took them?No.I took them from a site.

 

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  Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jul-2005 at 22:52
And you are really looking at nothing but the remnants of the later mosaics. The original splendor of the Justinian built church was defaced by the iconoclastic emperors of the 8th/9th century. When the Turks converted the building to a mosque for the caliph they simply plastered over the faded glory. When Ataturq abolished the caliphate, Hagia Sophia became a museum and subsequent archaeological work uncovered much of what lay beneath the plaster. The minarets of course are later additions to the original Roman design.
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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Jul-2005 at 23:28

 

still how could they converted it into a mosque?  Mosque's main structure must be in the Direction of Makka.

i think if it was Arabs who got their 1st they would've destroyed it and rebuilt a Mosque on it. that if they wanted to make it Mosque

 

 



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  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jul-2005 at 01:10

Well the turks whitewashed or plastered over the walls to hide the pictures so as to make it acceptable as a mosque. Good on them for not outright destroying it, they have allowed a beautiful piece of history to remain.

What was probably just as damaging as the iconoclastic damage was the damage wrought during the Fourth Crusade. The crusders looted anything and everything, even going so far as to tear up the floor of the Hagia Sophia. I doubt many of the precious mosaics and decorations survived their depredations.

Interestingly with that clearer picture of the Emperor (not the one of John II Comnenus and his wife) there is a story behind its origins. The woman in the picture below him is Empress Zoe, the legitimate reigning monarch. She first married the man who became known as Romanus III and the picture was originally of him. When Romanus died, Zoe remarried the man who became Michael IV and so Michael's face was painted over that of Romanus. When Michael died and Zoe married Constantine IX, Constantine's face in turn replaced Michael's.



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  Quote Raider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jul-2005 at 03:34
Originally posted by azimuth

 

still how could they converted it into a mosque?  Mosque's main structure must be in the Direction of Makka.

i think if it was Arabs who got their 1st they would've destroyed it and rebuilt a Mosque on it. that if they wanted to make it Mosque

A direction of praying differs from the main centerline of the building. In this picture you can see the asimetry of the qibla(?) and the building.

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Aug-2005 at 04:48
What if they returned Hagia Sophia over to the greek orthodox patriarch, as a sign of peace and goodwill. anyways, they already have a better looking mosque next door. wouldn't that be cool.
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  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Aug-2005 at 05:00
isnt this much to want? We still  dont trust greek orthodox patriarch much, and you wish a sign of peace and goodwill(Priced much)
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Aug-2005 at 07:23
well, since you have no use for it. other than a museum.
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  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Aug-2005 at 07:57

No comment

We want to use it as a mosque.I am realy curious If we can use as both.

 

 

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  Quote kotumeyil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Aug-2005 at 09:54
I don't want. It's OK now. Returning it into a temple creates another conflict. Maybe it would be fine to make it a fine-arts school, but no temple...

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  Quote kotumeyil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Aug-2005 at 10:00
Originally posted by Constantine XI

Well the turks whitewashed or plastered over the walls to hide the pictures so as to make it acceptable as a mosque. Good on them for not outright destroying it, they have allowed a beautiful piece of history to remain.

What was probably just as damaging as the iconoclastic damage was the damage wrought during the Fourth Crusade. The crusders looted anything and everything, even going so far as to tear up the floor of the Hagia Sophia. I doubt many of the precious mosaics and decorations survived their depredations.

Interestingly with that clearer picture of the Emperor (not the one of John II Comnenus and his wife) there is a story behind its origins. The woman in the picture below him is Empress Zoe, the legitimate reigning monarch. She first married the man who became known as Romanus III and the picture was originally of him. When Romanus died, Zoe remarried the man who became Michael IV and so Michael's face was painted over that of Romanus. When Michael died and Zoe married Constantine IX, Constantine's face in turn replaced Michael's.

There is a word for this in Turkish: "Ne oldum dememeli, ne olacam demeli" - Don't say "what am I?" but say "what will I be?" meaning  that "you should not be proud of your current situation, but think of your future". Michael faced the end that was faced by Romanus. 

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  Quote Phallanx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Aug-2005 at 10:23
Originally posted by Oguzoglu

I am happy to agree on some topic with Greeks. Agia Sofia is a beautiful Roman building, like all other Byzanthine and Ottoman monuments.


Roman building, how exactly did you come up with this???
While there is a similarity between Roman and Byzantine architecture and  Byzantine is actually a continuation of Roman 'style' they are quite different and Agia Sophia is one of the best examples to note the difference in architectural styles..


To the gods we mortals are all ignorant.Those old traditions from our ancestors, the ones we've had as long as time itself, no argument will ever overthrow, in spite of subtleties sharp minds invent.
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  Quote Heraclius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Aug-2005 at 13:53

Originally posted by Phallanx



Roman building, how exactly did you come up with this???
While there is a similarity between Roman and Byzantine architecture and  Byzantine is actually a continuation of Roman 'style' they are quite different and Agia Sophia is one of the best examples to note the difference in architectural styles..


 Hagia Sophia was built by Justinian the great though, who is considered (and certainly considered himself a Roman Emperor) the last true Roman Emperor of the Roman empire therefore it is a Roman building, especially since the original church of holy wisdom was built by Constantine another Roman Emperor.

 Architecturally there may be a difference, but the building was built by a Roman emperor in the Roman empire, so must be considered Roman, anything built during and after Heraclius' reign when Greek was officially made the language of the empire I think can be considered proper Byzantine IMO.



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  Quote Phallanx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Aug-2005 at 14:24
Well the 'separation' between the East and West empires had taken place several years before. Actually since 395, some mention even earlier during  Diocletian's reign. Anyway, the empire was split into West and East. But it definitely did slpit during the first schism due to the Arianism dispuit which was between 340-395.

So even if Justinian considered himself a Roman,  Agia Sophia was definitely built for the already separated due to the schism Eastern Empire and as a symbol of Eastern Orthodox Christianity.
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