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Athanasios
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Topic: Constantinople 1453- The Movie Posted: 04-Feb-2007 at 13:31 |
Originally posted by Anton
Athanasios, Ottoman domination had not anly bad sides as you were tought in school(1). Surely there is nothing good in blood taxes, musulmanization, burning of churches, kidnapping and raping and so on but mention that all that crap was in Balkans and everywhere else before Ottomans(2). Also keep in mind that real revolts against Ottomans started when the state wasn't able to offer efficient beurocracy in our territories(18th-19 centuries) (3). And third, during Ottomans Bulgarian church was given under rule fo Greek church. And Greeks behaved not exactly as "brothers in misfortune" should behave, so that some people speak about "Turkish-Greek slavery" (4)
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1. I've tried to find the "good" sides through netural sources but nop.Only dark and pain for Greek christians(exept some cases like those who lived in Fanary and the tradesmen).I don't think that you were tought something different in school about the Ottoman domination from that we were tought.
2. Yes , common incidents during the medieval era but through the Ottoman domination those things continued to happen and became even worse.
3.Wrong. The weakness of the Ottoman army was the main reason of the Greek revolution. The ideals of the French revolution also helped the construction of the ideological base and created a feeling that something similar could happen in the Balkans. Its not accidental that the planning of the G. revolution was started by Greeks who lived in states which tasted the era and the cultural benefits of enlightenment(unknown word in Ottoman empire)and had a strong national feeling.Greek revolution was a matter of time as a matter of time was for the other Balkan nations to follow.
Anyway, the difference between the main points of Greek and French revolution was that F.R. was social G.R. was national .
4.Tell me that you are not refering the exarchat church...
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Anton
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Posted: 04-Feb-2007 at 17:29 |
Originally posted by Athanasios
1. I've tried to find the "good" sides through netural sources but nop.Only dark and pain for Greek christians(exept some cases like those who lived in Fanary and the tradesmen).I don't think that you were tought something different in school about the Ottoman domination from that we were tought.
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Search better. You might find some overestimations in Bulgarian, Greek, Serbian (and Turkish of course) views on Ottoman domination time.
2. Yes , common incidents during the medieval era but through the Ottoman domination those things continued to happen and became even worse.
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Probably you know that they continued in the whole Balkan peninslula some 150 years after Greek independence
3.Wrong. The weakness of the Ottoman army was the main reason of the Greek revolution. The ideals of the French revolution also helped the construction of the ideological base and created a feeling that something similar could happen in the Balkans. Its not accidental that the planning of the G. revolution was started by Greeks who lived in states which tasted the era and the cultural benefits of enlightenment(unknown word in Ottoman empire)and had a strong national feeling.Anyway, the difference between the main points of Greek and French revolution was that F.R. was social G.R. was national .
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Don't tell me that French Revolution was social and the main reason WAS NOT economical. Let somebody correct me if I am wrong but the real cause of any revolution, oversimplifying, is the fact that people who had money don't rule.
Greek revolution was a matter of time as a matter of time was for the other Balkan nations to follow.
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Yes, it was indeed. No doubts. But just to put some flies in your ointment
I will tell you that many members of those Balkan nations that you mentioned directly participated in this revolution. As rebels and like Stefan Bogoridi -- in persuading Mahmud II to sign the independence of Greece.
4.Tell me that you are not refering the exarchat church...
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I refer to giving of Bulgarian Orthodox Church under the rule of Patriarch of Constantinople. I refer to closing of Bulgarian schools, burning of Bulgarian books, forcing people to pray in Greek instead of Bulgarian and so on. I am rather sure that Bulgarians would do the same if they could but my point was different. I suppose it is bad idea to blaim others before you realize that your own nation did more or less the same. Which basically means that maybe fall of Constantinople was bad for Balkan nation but you are too quick stating that it was bad in general. Bad, sort of speak, "for the humanity".
Edited by Anton - 04-Feb-2007 at 17:31
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Athanasios
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Posted: 04-Feb-2007 at 20:08 |
I said , i searched in netural sources.Not Greek , Not Serb. Netural. Probably those cruel actions continued in the Balkan Peninsula 150 years after the Greek revolution because someone thought he was the Prussia of Balkans and he ate dust in the end .
"...As rebels and like Stefan Bogoridi -- in persuading Mahmud II to sign the independence of Greece."
Have you ever noticed the influence that Greeks had in Sultan's courtyard?
Have you ever heard about "filiki etairia"?
Have you ever noticed the pressure wich was made by the three powers (Russia,England and France) in "persuade" the sultan to sign the indipendence of Greece?He was with his back on the wall anyway...
There was even an english plan of creating an "Helleno-Turckic" empire in the position of the Ottoman Empire, because they were feared a Russian occupation of Constantinopole.
Yes , there were a few Christians from other Balkan nations who helped in our revolution war against the Ottoman Empire but there were more westerners "phelellenes" who also served our war for independence,charmed from the beauty of ancient Hellenic culture.
Now about the churches...Search more netural sources and don't spread 100y.o. cheap propaganda.
I also have to mention that "Eptanissa" (Corfu, Zante etc.) were not under Ottoman domination but under Latin. The cultural difference between those islands (in this period) and the main Greece was vast! So i think it would be definatelly better if the balkan Peninsula was under Latin occupation, even Constantinopole.
Anton, I don't realy understand your point about the economics... if they had money, where they were supossed to spend them ?They didn't care about the money because the Ottoman empire was agricultural by this time, not industrial capitalistic as the whole Europe.Fanariotes were wealthy Greeks and yes, they ruled someway...
Of course French revolution started mainly of the need for better conditions of life. But I also mentioned that Greek revolution was national. If you have money you can rule . If you are a nation you should have an indepented state to live.
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MASON1
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Posted: 04-Feb-2007 at 20:10 |
wait is there any GOOD movie that i can rent and watch about canstantinople?
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MASONRY WELCOMES EVERYBODY
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Anton
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Posted: 04-Feb-2007 at 20:17 |
Originally posted by Athanasios
I said , i searched in netural sources.Not Greek , Not Serb. Netural. Probably those cruel actions continued in the Balkan Peninsula 150 years after the Greek revolution because someone thought he was the Prussia of Balkans and he ate dust in the end.
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Did you mean Switzerland of Balkans? This is amazing, Athanasios, in every your post you accuse Bulgarians and Turks at least several times without even understanding that! How's that? You definitely don't like history. I repeate you again, go to learn history of your neighbours and then come back prepared.
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Athanasios
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Posted: 04-Feb-2007 at 20:23 |
I don't see any statements anton...
You have a great faculty to tangle the topics.You are not going to refer anything about Basil II . Are you?
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Anton
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Posted: 04-Feb-2007 at 20:40 |
Originally posted by Athanasios
I don't see any statements anton...
You have a great faculty to tangle the topics.You are not going to refer anything about Basil II . Are you? |
Open your heart, brother, and you will find my statements And basically my advise for you is to open it more quickly since you can be very quickly be banned from the forum. That's my humble opinion.
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Athanasios
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Posted: 05-Feb-2007 at 00:09 |
Open your heart, brother, and you will find my statements And basically my advise for you is to open it more quickly since you can be very quickly be banned from the forum. That's my humble opinion. [/QUOTE]
It was a coinsidence.
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Bulldog
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Posted: 05-Feb-2007 at 08:34 |
Don't confuse yourself with others please, most Balkan members get on pretty well here.
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What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine
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Athanasios
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Posted: 05-Feb-2007 at 19:49 |
I don't think that i had the intention to offend anyone...
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Anton
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Posted: 06-Feb-2007 at 06:57 |
Originally posted by Athanasios
I don't think that i had the intention to offend anyone... |
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kotumeyil
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Posted: 22-Jan-2008 at 17:15 |
Well since it's a very long discussed issue; I searched for a 57 years old Turkish movie on the fall of Constantinople. No doubt it has some nationalism but it's very interesting to see how half a century ago this conquest was pictured by the Turkish side. here's the movie:
Edited by kotumeyil - 22-Jan-2008 at 17:20
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[IMG]http://www.maksimum.com/yemeicme/images/haber/raki.jpg">
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Sun Tzu
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Posted: 25-Jan-2008 at 12:53 |
Yea the Byzantine empire holds as one of my most favorite nations, It lasted for many years holding the knowledge and culture of ancient Rome. But when 1453 came around, the Byzantine empire became a "sick man" and it was doomed to be looted till destrcution. When Mehmed II came around in a way he did them a favor, he gave the Byzantines a last glorious fight for the Empire. That and he let them go out with a bang and that it was better for Byzantium to burn out then fade away.
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Sun Tzu
All warfare is based on deception - Sun Tzu
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Count Belisarius
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Posted: 26-Aug-2008 at 16:21 |
I think it should be from the view point of a cataphract/elite guard who knows boxing, greek wreslting and pankration, he defends the emporer from assasins and whatnot and when the emporer charges into the jannisary's he and fellow troop's rescue the emporer and his companions and they escape along with the love interest and the cretan soldiers from the towers mabye the commander is his friend? and they get on the ships along with the other refugees and from htri own merceary band in italy?
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Defenders of Ulthuan, Cult of Asuryan (57 Kills and counting)
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Guests
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Posted: 26-Aug-2008 at 17:16 |
Originally posted by Athanasios
I said , i searched in netural sources.Not Greek , Not Serb. Netural. Probably those cruel actions continued in the Balkan Peninsula 150 years after the Greek revolution because someone thought he was the Prussia of Balkans and he ate dust in the end.
"...As rebels and like Stefan Bogoridi -- in persuading Mahmud II to sign the independence of Greece."
Have you ever noticed the influence that Greeks had in Sultan's courtyard?
Have you ever heard about "filiki etairia"?
Have you ever noticed the pressure wich was made by the three powers (Russia,England and France) in "persuade" the sultan to sign the indipendence of Greece?He was with his back on the wall anyway...
There was even an english plan of creating an "Helleno-Turckic" empire in the position of the Ottoman Empire, because they were feared a Russian occupation of Constantinopole.
Yes , there were a few Christians from other Balkan nations who helped in our revolution war against the Ottoman Empire but there were more westerners "phelellenes" who also served our war for independence,charmed from the beauty of ancient Hellenic culture.
Now about the churches...Search more netural sources and don't spread 100y.o. cheap propaganda.
I also have to mention that "Eptanissa" (Corfu, Zante etc.) were not under Ottoman domination but under Latin. The cultural difference between those islands (in this period) and the main Greece was vast! So i think it would be definatelly better if the balkan Peninsula was under Latin occupation, even Constantinopole.
Anton, I don't realy understand your point about the economics... if they had money, where they were supossed to spend them ?They didn't care about the money because the Ottoman empire was agricultural by this time, not industrial capitalistic as the whole Europe.Fanariotes were wealthy Greeks and yes, they ruled someway...
Of course French revolution started mainly of the need for better conditions of life. But I also mentioned that Greek revolution was national. If you have money you can rule . If you are a nation you should have an indepented state to live. |
Read Caroline Finkel's book "Osman's Dream."
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Guests
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Posted: 26-Aug-2008 at 17:21 |
Originally posted by Count Belisarius
I think it should be from the view point of a cataphract/elite guard who knows boxing, greek wreslting and pankration, he defends the emporer from assasins and whatnot and when the emporer charges into the jannisary's he and fellow troop's rescue the emporer and his companions and they escape along with the love interest and the cretan soldiers from the towers mabye the commander is his friend? and they get on the ships along with the other refugees and from htri own merceary band in italy? |
We have been subjected to enough Vin Diesel and 300 movies as it is. A combination of the two would be horrifying. How about a neutral movie that is about the historic Constantinople.
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Count Belisarius
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Posted: 26-Aug-2008 at 18:07 |
How many peope are gonna want to watch that?
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Defenders of Ulthuan, Cult of Asuryan (57 Kills and counting)
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eaglecap
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Posted: 09-Apr-2010 at 14:57 |
I put together the story so when do we start production- A&E's first movie.
Favorite scene:
Edited by eaglecap - 09-Apr-2010 at 15:04
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Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε
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opuslola
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Posted: 13-Apr-2010 at 14:51 |
Yes, what an adventure! Just how would we today portray the Venicians, or the Pisans, or the Gemoans, or the Franks?, or the?, take your pick of a number of possible entrants!
Almost all of the participants would have to be characterized as "evil!"
How would that fill movie theatres?
Just whom / who would be the "good guys?"
Problem is, there were "no good guys" then! The churches (all of them) were basically evil, and all of the nations or peoples and their leaders were basically "evil!"
Hey, here is a movie title "Great Evil versus Great Evil!!!" So, why not just shorten it to "GE v. GE!", which just might get people today to see the evil that exists within the company that uses the initials "G.E." today, that is "General Electric!"
Regards,
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http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/history/
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