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About Russian influence in Mongolian cult

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  Quote Feramez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: About Russian influence in Mongolian cult
    Posted: 18-Apr-2005 at 22:51
Yea, Cengiz Han adopted the Uygur alphabet to establish a writing system for his great empire.
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  Quote perdon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Apr-2005 at 07:23

Originally posted by Chono

Don't worry people, apart from ugly buildings not much russian influence is left. I don't think we "lost so much", the language is there, the culture is there, what else do you need? Every asian nation has lost something because of exposure to western culture.

Ass hole !!!!the russian also brings civilization to you !,you idiot!

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  Quote Kalevipoeg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Apr-2005 at 15:00

"Ass hole !!!!the russian also brings civilization to you !,you idiot!"

 

If you mean the USSR, which you very probably do, then you are one of those deluded romantics who can't let go of the fact that the USSR was nothing more then a shadow of civilization and culture during his reign. What did he bring to anyone he ignorantly invaded - hatred towards himself, cultural dark holes, made the entire Russian nation be laughed at and made them seem as a bunch of alcoholics and murderers to his neighbours. The state forcefully tried to make you loose your identity and nationality. Of what culture are you talking about. Romantics aren't all bad, but you should read something from authors of realism or naturalism.

There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible than a man in the depths of an ether binge...
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  Quote Feramez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Apr-2005 at 16:31
Originally posted by perdon

Originally posted by Chono

Don't worry people, apart from ugly buildings not much russian influence is left. I don't think we "lost so much", the language is there, the culture is there, what else do you need? Every asian nation has lost something because of exposure to western culture.

Ass hole !!!!the russian also brings civilization to you !,you idiot!

 

What are you talking about?  Mongolia had and still does have a great civilization before the USSR.  If they brought civilization to Mongolia then shouldn't they be living almost like Russians?  From what I know they don't live like Russians.  The nomads definetly don't, the urban lifestyle from what I know is not Russian, I'm sure some influence is there.  So how did the USSR bring them civilization?

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  Quote yan. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Apr-2005 at 18:27

Originally posted by Kalevipoeg

"Ass hole !!!!the russian also brings civilization to you !,you idiot!"

 

If you mean the USSR, which you very probably do, then you are one of those deluded romantics who can't let go of the fact that the USSR was nothing more then a shadow of civilization and culture during his reign. What did he bring to anyone he ignorantly invaded - hatred towards himself, cultural dark holes, made the entire Russian nation be laughed at and made them seem as a bunch of alcoholics and murderers to his neighbours. The state forcefully tried to make you loose your identity and nationality. Of what culture are you talking about. Romantics aren't all bad, but you should read something from authors of realism or naturalism.

I think Mongolians view Russians more favorable than Estonians do. Which is somewhat ironic, given the Russian attitude towards Mongolia (as expressed by perdon). I guess you can write it down to Russia protecting them from China and to the fact that socialism actually brought a great deal of development to Mongolia (schools, access to health care etc). 

Russians being a bunch of alcoholics probably only enforced the image of Russia as some kind of elder brother  .

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Apr-2005 at 09:58

@ perdon,

I thought you were an Uzbek Turk, but I cant understand how you can think Russians brought civilization to Mongols. Instead of bringing them civilization, Russia always tried to destroy the historical and linguistic bonds btw its former socialist republics and non-Russian subjects, such as Tunguz, Mongolic and Turkic people. For example, they adopted different cyril alphabet versions to the Turkic nations to differ all Turkic nations from each other, and to prevent a possible unificated Turkestan. They didnt care about their own cultures or civizlizations, and gave Russian names to all those cities of central asia, and settled Russians there to be the major culture. As an Uzbek, you should know these better than me.

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  Quote perdon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-May-2005 at 21:38

Okey ! Gental men !

I of course remember what russians have doen to us ,here i am not trying to defend russian ,but  just think about modernization of mogolia ,it is the fact ,and they should apperciate that they can build a country with the help of russian !(From china in 1945).one more thing ,in Ozbekistan ,I ever knew some mongolian ,it seems they tent to like russian !

I think there is a probalem ,the defination of civilization ,if you think nomads are civilized and only having strong militar force is a kind of civilization ,well I don't think so ! mogol in the past centrues  had strong military only ,what kind of civilization did they have ?  one fact ,they invaded central asia ,what heppened then ?they became musilim and adoped turkic culture ,if they were  more civilized , they wouldn't use uyghur as their alphabet ,and use tibeten religion as their religion .

  Turk is turk ,Mongol is mogol ,maybe they have something in common ,but to me central asian turk and turkish turks are the most beautiful nation in this world !I am proud of being turk !

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  Quote AyKurt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-May-2005 at 08:59
Whats wrong with the Uyhgur alphabet and the Tibetan religion?  How does that make them less civilised?
in my opinion a marker of civilisation is what comes from within a society and not outside.  A truly civilised society wouldnt need to adopt someone elses alphabet nor would they have to adopt someone elses religion.  The same is true for the lifeways of that society.  For greater civilisations would have been creative enough to come up with these themselves as is relevant to that society.  A lesser one would have to adopt or copy it from another civilisation.   How many Turkic countries still use the Uyghur or Orkhon scripts?  Or follow an indigenous religion?
The mongols have to be congratulated for dispite being under Chinese and Russian occupation they still retain elements of their own civilisation, and maybe Mongolia is not in the best of shapes today but they have a strong foundation that will help build a strong future for them tomorrow.  There are not many countries in Central or Western Asia that can say the same.


Edited by AyKurt
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-May-2005 at 12:41

@ perdon

Of course you should be proud of being a Turk. But this shouldnt make you unaware of where we all originated from. We had an ancient and developed nomadic civilization, we had our own religion, our own alphabets and our own ancient independent history, but noone can or has any reason to deny our national identity as nomads. Turkic culture is a nomadic civilization, and denying it is needless. This doesnt make you uncivilized or inferior, in fact, this provides you all you need to survive, the enormous ability of adoption to every natural, ethnical, cultural condition easily without being assimilated as a nation. And this makes our civilization richer among others, with the synthesis of other cultural developments into Turkic civilization.

That's true that Mongols adopted Turkic alphabet of Uighur but it is also true that Turks adopted it from Sogdian. But if we get deep inside history, we will see that even Sogdians were Turkic and Indo European mixture. I think the main blank in the Mongolian culture is the lack of their own religion. I always considered Mongols and Turks very different, both in linguistics, in history and culturally, but sure because of the nomadic life, there happened intermixing of cultures, linguistics, and ethnicities btw Eastern Turks and Mongols. But nomadic civilization was the common identity btw us...

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  Quote Kazec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-May-2005 at 01:57

Mongol script is so beautiful!

Can Mongol script be processed by computer nowadays?

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  Quote Feramez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-May-2005 at 12:42

I've never seen it done, but I'm sure there's programs out there that will do it, from what I know you can use just about any alphabet now.

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  Quote AyKurt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-May-2005 at 17:06
I fully agree with Kazec.  The Uyghur script is one of the most elegant scripts i have ever seen.  Only fitting for a great culture and a great civilisation.  Congratulations to the Mongols for keeping it alive.
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha
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  Quote chonos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Dec-2005 at 15:23
In my opinion the worst russian influence to mongolians was heavy consumption of vodka and drinking habit as result mass alcoholism

Edited by chonos
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  Quote Sogdian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 11:20
To appreciate what was positive about USSR influence on Mongolian culture, it's enough to visit Inner Mongolia in China and see the alternative.
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  Quote yan. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 13:53

Originally posted by chonos

In my opinion the worst russian influence to mongolians was heavy consumption of vodka and drinking habit as result mass alcoholism

"Then they began drinking, and as is their custom, they kept on drinking till evening." John of Plano Carpini, History of the Mongols

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  Quote chonos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 17:44
Well, I'd not say that mongols dislike drinking, as a matter of fact the "vodka" we drink is a low % alcohol distilled from mare's milk, a sort of sake, but not 43% spirit introduced by russians. 
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  Quote Akskl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Dec-2005 at 23:12
For those who wants to know more about the Russian influence I would recommend to read the following book -
Kalpana Sahni Crucifying the Orient Russian Orientalism and the Colonization of Caucasus and Central Asia - White Orchard Press, Bangkok, Thailand; The Institute for Comparative Research in Human Culture, Oslo, first published 1997
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